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PRO Endurance - Feedback thread

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Re: PRO Endurance - Feedback thread

Post by F4H Hakkinen on Mon 23 Jun 2014 - 4:03

ATP Wheelwash wrote:I was one of those that signed up for the series, had sorted a time table so i would have been able to run four of the five rounds, as when a series is released and it tickles my fancy, i have to arrange these things as real life is far more important, and the weekends is never easy, kids off school, having to be awake when theres daylight outside, spending time with the wife due to work commitments during the week on her part. Its a juggling act at times, so having released the calendar, then cancelling the second round due to personal reasons / soccer, then re arranging it to clash directly with TORA's biggest Endurance event in the Le Mans 24hr which is coming this Saturday, although it was mentioned in a thread that it may also get cancelled if England were playing, which would have then given another adjustment. So instead of being able to run four rounds, it was reduced to two instantly.

The qualifying thing, well im glad you assume we all have mobile phones, i dont, i hate the things, i knew i would never be affecting the Lobby One guys, so didnt mind not qualifying with the number of sign ups. Also with the qualifying, wheres the pressure of qualifying? a five lap dash, or a fifteen / twenty minute session adds some pressure to the situation, whereas this way, it came across more as making sure that any mistakes, like a damaged car for example, wasnt a part of it, just hot lap for as long as you want and you have your best time. Also, you seemed extremely keen to make sure that no one cheated in the times department, making sure that your photo was taken in a certain spot,. but that ruling didnt seem to apply to everyone. Round three for example saw just five times shown in the thread, of which only one was an F4H time, which was Trash's. the rest was on your word, now im not calling F4H cheats, thats not the point, but it has to be the same rules for everybody doesnt it?

The comments about people signing up, and then not running, well i always sign up with the good intention of racing as many rounds as possible, i enjoy doing a few photos and publicising the events on the various social media outlets i have at my disposal, im not here just for the racing, im too slow for that, i enjoy the whole package as and when time allows, i even do bits for series im not involved with, just to publicise the hard work that goes into running a series, something i have had plenty of experience in before my illness made that commitment no longer a viable option. I like to think i have a very good attendance record overall, but when a series is taken as lightly as this one seems to have been, i vote with my feet, and in the case of this series, that was a very easy decision to make.

I hope you dont simply take this as an excuse for me to just vent, i have a blog for that and some fantastic nhs drugs that keep life in a happy floaty place these days, but i have made the effort to give feedback in areas that affected me, they are my opinions only and the team running the series would probably disagree on all counts, but i voted with my feet, how many others did?

I appreciate your thoughts and they certainly will be considered. I also know you've a good attendance record as I've raced you many times before.
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Re: PRO Endurance - Feedback thread

Post by F4H Lotterer on Mon 23 Jun 2014 - 10:31

or other easy was to qualify are to use the leaderboard providing its a personal best or post in the threads available and ask if anyone is able to qualify with you.

But all great feedback so far i am liking some of the track suggestions as for using multiple cars in a class i cant see that happening as we want to keep things as spec as possible so it is more about the driver and not the car.
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Re: PRO Endurance - Feedback thread

Post by F4H Spartan on Mon 23 Jun 2014 - 12:18

F4H Trash wrote:or other easy was to qualify are to use the leaderboard providing its a personal best or post in the threads available and ask if anyone is able to qualify with you.

But all great feedback so far i am liking some of the track suggestions as for using multiple cars in a class i cant see that happening as we want to keep things as spec as possible so it is more about the driver and not the car.

Agreed, but tuning has an undeniable advantage, i know some of the newer guys struggle with tuning and run a lot slower as a result, Captain morgan being one, he runs a damn good race line but admits he struggles with tuning. I know its an impossible thing but doing something for those new to tuning or the tuning retarded (me) could make for some closer racing and shock results.

New blood coming over to tora do seem to be daunted by assists off tuning to a set specification, rolling starts and putting a square peg in a round hole through the first few corners. I think newbies and veterans a like should have a participation and performance score which determines their spec of car, alot of this would rely on being open and honest. If a new guy joins and knows he can run top 3 all day every day he needs to be transparent about it, but more so those that come on race in a series, come last every time need a boost or they will simply stop racing.

Taking the Aston out last night for the conclusion of the sunday series was a daunting prospect. I have struggled with the series and felt really demotivated, pulling out a 3rd and 4th was a major pick me up and i think those that struggle need to know that its not out of their grasp each and every time. I know alot of people will disagree with this approach but with dwindling numbers on FM5 people NEED a reason to race and the belief that they can improve and do well with perseverance.
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Re: PRO Endurance - Feedback thread

Post by F4H Xyloto on Mon 23 Jun 2014 - 12:28

Mamu 2508 wrote:
F4H Trash wrote:or other easy was to qualify are to use the leaderboard providing its a personal best or post in the threads available and ask if anyone is able to qualify with you.

But all great feedback so far i am liking some of the track suggestions as for using multiple cars in a class i cant see that happening as we want to keep things as spec as possible so it is more about the driver and not the car.

Agreed, but tuning has an undeniable advantage, i know some of the newer guys struggle with tuning and run a lot slower as a result, Captain morgan being one, he runs a damn good race line but admits he struggles with tuning. I know its an impossible thing but doing something for those new to tuning or the tuning retarded (me) could make for some closer racing and shock results.

New blood coming over to tora do seem to be daunted by assists off tuning to a set specification, rolling starts and putting a square peg in a round hole through the first few corners. I think newbies and veterans a like should have a participation and performance score which determines their spec of car, alot of this would rely on being open and honest. If a new guy joins and knows he can run top 3 all day every day he needs to be transparent about it, but more so those that come on race in a series, come last every time need a boost or they will simply stop racing.

So kind of like how Iracing does it? How would we compute that number? Tuning does have a big advantage, but I'm not sure how we could fix that. I would say just go and learn it, but not many people have the time or patience for that stuff. I was daunted a little bit, although I was already running without ABS at the time. If we wanted to open it up more, I would say let people use manual, because learning clutch seems scary, and that may scare some people away.[/quote]
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Re: PRO Endurance - Feedback thread

Post by F4H Xyloto on Mon 23 Jun 2014 - 12:35

Also, when I joined, I thought that I would be much quicker than I was at Spa. It's hard to be honest and transparent when you have no idea how you stack up to anybody.
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Re: PRO Endurance - Feedback thread

Post by F4H Lotterer on Mon 23 Jun 2014 - 16:35

What about signups guys was 4 man teams too much ? would 2 or 3 man teams be better ?
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Re: PRO Endurance - Feedback thread

Post by F4H Xyloto on Mon 23 Jun 2014 - 16:49

Well, since pretty much no one on my team showed up, I don't think I can weigh in on this Crying or Very sad 
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Re: PRO Endurance - Feedback thread

Post by F4H Lotterer on Mon 23 Jun 2014 - 16:58

Well maybe you can get a team up and running for season 2
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Re: PRO Endurance - Feedback thread

Post by Capt10 Morgan on Mon 23 Jun 2014 - 17:03

Mamu 2508 wrote:
F4H Trash wrote:or other easy was to qualify are to use the leaderboard providing its a personal best or post in the threads available and ask if anyone is able to qualify with you.

But all great feedback so far i am liking some of the track suggestions as for using multiple cars in a class i cant see that happening as we want to keep things as spec as possible so it is more about the driver and not the car.

Agreed, but tuning has an undeniable advantage, i know some of the newer guys struggle with tuning and run a lot slower as a result, Captain morgan being one, he runs a damn good race line but admits he struggles with tuning. I know its an impossible thing but doing something for those new to tuning or the tuning retarded (me) could make for some closer racing and shock results.

New blood coming over to tora do seem to be daunted by assists off tuning to a set specification, rolling starts and putting a square peg in a round hole through the first few corners. I think newbies and veterans a like should have a participation and performance score which determines their spec of car, alot of this would rely on being open and honest. If a new guy joins and knows he can run top 3 all day every day he needs to be transparent about it, but more so those that come on race in a series, come last every time need a boost or they will simply stop racing.

Taking the Aston out last night for the conclusion of the sunday series was a daunting prospect. I have struggled with the series and felt really demotivated, pulling out a 3rd and 4th was a major pick me up and i think those that struggle need to know that its not out of their grasp each and every time. I know alot of people will disagree with this approach but with dwindling numbers on FM5 people NEED a reason to race and the belief that they can improve and do well with perseverance.

I plan on joining a team with someone that can help me tune next time for sure! With this being my first series with TORA, I didn't know much about it and didn't want to drag anyone down with me. Something that might be nice for us non-tuners (and to perhaps provide for better competition overall) would be if one of the tuners were to post some sort of generic open source tune. Something to get us started, and maybe even if some of the tuners were to give a couple hints for each track, like "you might want to increase/decrease this for this track", etc. Might be giving away some of their magic, but since this series is more about the driver than the car, might not be too bad.

As for the participation and performance reward system? I used to run a pretty involved NCAA Football league/site and we had something similar. We didn't do anything on the honor system, but rewarded people for participation (they had to report stats, write game recaps, punctuality, etc) And we also used a handicap system based on their record for the season. It definitely gave incentive for the less talented people to not only finish the season, but stay involved. (And helped with the continuity of the site because they were looking forward to playing with a better team the next season) Now having said this... I personally don't care. I am a weirdo who has absolutely no problem coming in last each race. Every race needs a loser, right? So you are welcome! lol. As long as I'm not bothering anyone, I'll just keep going til I get better.

Last but not least: Anyone that doesn't want to take a picture and post can feel free to hit me up anytime. All it takes is 2 people running laps in a lobby and I can take the picture for you. I enjoy racing with other people anyway. Hotlapping can get so tedious on your own. I know I'm not the only one, so perhaps start a thread for people looking to run laps with other people throughout the week.
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Re: PRO Endurance - Feedback thread

Post by F4H Diablo on Mon 23 Jun 2014 - 17:43

I didn't race this, nor do have an XB1, however, if I were racing, I'd wish for the following:

Organized qualifying sessions: One a few days before the race, one the day before. Pressure of qually is a necessary aspect to racing, imo. Even right before the race, i'd be fine with.

If you're going to have qually done before the race, have the grid posted the morning of the event, with times. No questions then.

All assists: I like everyone to use what they want. The challenge is there for those that wish to take it, and the assists for the people that don't.

Variety in cars: more than one choice per class would be good.

Smaller teams: 2 or 3 max, no need for 4 person teams.


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Re: PRO Endurance - Feedback thread

Post by F4H Xyloto on Mon 23 Jun 2014 - 17:50

F4H Trash wrote:Well maybe you can get a team up and running for season 2

Meh, really don't have an interest in running my own right now, just enjoying the racing Very Happy 
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Re: PRO Endurance - Feedback thread

Post by LMR Hybrid on Mon 23 Jun 2014 - 18:01

teams should be 2-3 drivers.

manual with clutch shouldn't be mandatory. i mean race cars have sequential gearboxes anyway. its not an advantage to not use clutch so let people who aren't familiar with it use it.

the main issue with the series was numbers so that should be the first priority should be to attract all racers from rookies to pros.






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Re: PRO Endurance - Feedback thread

Post by F4H Hakkinen on Mon 23 Jun 2014 - 19:26

It will most likely stay as Spec guys. Balancing on Forza is a nightmare and cause for argument. Very good points raised elsewhere
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Re: PRO Endurance - Feedback thread

Post by Capt10 Morgan on Mon 23 Jun 2014 - 19:32

cardsrule96 wrote:
F4H Trash wrote:Well maybe you can get a team up and running for season 2

Meh, really don't have an interest in running my own right now, just enjoying the racing Very Happy 

Ill join ya  Cool 
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Re: PRO Endurance - Feedback thread

Post by Colonal Keidec on Tue 24 Jun 2014 - 0:57

F4H Diablo's points is the exact reason i didnt sign up for the last round at long beach, i think the assists should be there for those that wish/need to use but for those that dont wanna use them then that be fine as well lol, regarding quali i prefer the organised room idea, i think maybe for season 2 have it as the prototypes are the 908 and a different gt car
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Re: PRO Endurance - Feedback thread

Post by F4H Lotterer on Tue 24 Jun 2014 - 9:38

Yeah we are talking about open assists Wink
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Re: PRO Endurance - Feedback thread

Post by BG Wumba on Tue 24 Jun 2014 - 10:54

In my opinion the track list for the calender is great, obviously you will want to change it around a bit but tracks such as Spa, Le Mans and Long Beach (especially as it is the only proper decent street track on the game) should be kept on there as iconic tracks.
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Re: PRO Endurance - Feedback thread

Post by LMR Hybrid on Tue 24 Jun 2014 - 11:06

bathurst lol






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Re: PRO Endurance - Feedback thread

Post by F4H Lotterer on Tue 24 Jun 2014 - 11:15

NO Wink
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Re: PRO Endurance - Feedback thread

Post by Bob Dixon 76 on Tue 24 Jun 2014 - 14:21

Only done 1 race but imo, Long Beach should stay Bathurst is mint, le sarth should stay, Bathurst would be cool, Spa needs eu rouge opened up or strictly policed, 2h races. Work with all sites if possable. I might get slated for this but there should be a official sign up thread on as many site's possable, i know thats not been done before but times change and adapting is key if you want to make progress. IMO

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Re: PRO Endurance - Feedback thread

Post by smithaldo on Tue 24 Jun 2014 - 14:25

I loved the idea of this series. It definitely interested me when I signed up. But when it was made known that you had to run manual with clutch, my interest dropped.

It's good to read that the possibilty of assists being opened up. As it's already been said, if you run manual without clutch you're not getting any advantage, so I can't see any issues in allowing it.

If this happens then I'll be joining in for sure.
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Re: PRO Endurance - Feedback thread

Post by F4H Hakkinen on Tue 24 Jun 2014 - 17:35

All great points so far guys and there will be changes. Keep it coming Smile
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Re: PRO Endurance - Feedback thread

Post by LMR Hybrid on Tue 24 Jun 2014 - 17:37

longer races no mandtory pit. so we can try and fuel save lol






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Re: PRO Endurance - Feedback thread

Post by F4H Xyloto on Tue 24 Jun 2014 - 17:38

Maybe slightly longer races, but not 2 hours long...too long for my taste.
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Re: PRO Endurance - Feedback thread

Post by F4H Hakkinen on Tue 24 Jun 2014 - 17:43

Longer races for sure. We are looking at between 90 mins and 2.4 hours (hint hint) for race lengths. Also, damage will remain on simulation. That'll not change
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