FM6 General Discussion

Just a thought Mikey, but when it comes to actual race cars, PCars does a better job of balancing them right off. There's wide differences in the performances of say, GT3 cars in Forza, whereas in PCars from what I can tell, they are much closer, so less balancing is needed.

Our leagues have always been based around Forza, so yeah, we had to develop things around what we had to work with. That said, your right in that Forza offer us a bigger variety of types of racing we can do, with many more options to develop our own unique series.

If Project cars get a deal with the TUSCC/WEC and BTCC/WTCC for cars and tracks WITH the paint shop that Project cars have on the PC to the Xbox One witch they could do as Fallout 4 lets you transfer mods from the PC to the Xbox one for free..... then I don't see how Forza 6 can compete. ALSO like Dominic Mako said:

"that we'll have tire wear? Or real fuel use? Tire compounds? Pit strategies? I think the thing to face is that the Forza franchise is not well-suited to league racing or for motorsports fans in general"

Also as ErebusV8 said

" I hope GT cars are pre balanced "

These are MOST of the things that TORA will need to think about before making ANY decision with going to Forza 6.

Tyre compounds have been mentioned as part of the blurb on the forza site so I think that's incoming.
I hope we'll see a trend with this as we have with other titles recently that it is increasingly more difficult to play.
Too many games are easy and I think that's what Forza may have lacked a little bit. It's also the reason why a lot of people are struggling with CARS because it's so different.

Ultimately, we will host things on a number of platforms because that's increasingly what the community is after.
We've not been a solely Forza Motorsport community for quite some time and way back we used Race Pro and even did a couple of events on Moto GP!
2016 is a big year and I can see CARS, FM6 and Assetto Corsa all becoming staple sources of championships here.
Then you have iRacing and the other PC titles that may attract more community driven series and hey presto, we're all over the place

I can see FM6 and CARS being pretty decent. But AC is broken on PC at the moment. People only really appreciate it as a hotlapping sim. The Mulitplayer is completely broken and unless they bring the DLC cars to the full game for console, it's got a minimal amount of content.

I agree with some of your points, Mikey. Being able to craft your own series with a wide variety of cars is nice. The largest series on TORA has traditionally been GT and LMP races though, and I don't believe FM6 will bring the authenticity that it should to that kind of racing. TORA isn't the only concern though, as I'll mention below.

I think that's the push/pull here. Do you want a game that better simulates what a race weekend involves and all the strategy that comes with actual racing, or a game that gives you the most types of cars to race together? FM6 will indisputably hold that second title.

While a livery editor does allow for some personal expression, and I genuinely miss it, it has literally no impact in on-track racing. It's actually a bit of a relief that you don't have to worry about someone driving a car covered in "stickors make car faster" or a nude woman.

As you know, I run my own club and we have to make a decision as to which game we'll focus on. We've run two official races in pcars so far, and both were totally unpredictable events (in a good way). They felt like actual races. I only wish I could get the Forza handling into pcars. However, game stability is important, and if pcars can't be reliable for everyone, or if people get bored of spec races, we'll just have to migrate back to FM for those reasons alone.

QUTOE Dominic Mako

" I only wish I could get the Forza handling into pcars "

If Project Cars had the handling of Forza then it would be F###ing CRAP!!!! Forza handling is arcade and you can not change the controls getting to make the cars better to drive.we can't say what Forza 6 will be like because no one knows ... I say we need to wait for what features , car AND track list is before doing anything.

Also they got the McLaren mp4-12c gt3 and the Lamborghini Gallardo gt3.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-06-08-looks-like-forza-6-is-getting-the-features-the-fans-have-been-asking-for

Personally, I wouldn´t get excited for Project CARS.
The game was released a month ago and we are still waiting for the patch. Apparently it got pushed back twice because new problems showed up.
The multiplayer is still a disaster and the developers don´t even want to acknowledge it. The "fanboy" legion isn´t helping either.

The major problem here is not the variety, nor balacing, nor realism. It is league "support".
I find ridiculous the amount of workarounds that both FM5 and PCars require, at the moment, in order to organize a full-blown racing weekend.
It is terrible for the TORA staff. All that precious time spent in spreadsheets, problem solving, etc, etc, is precious time taken away from racing. Something that is not necessary! With all the network issues PCars has, this is only to get worse.

If FM6´s is the new FM4 then I think Pcars is not the "main" platform to choose. While not the most realistic, FM4´s was some of the best racing I´ve ever had and I would kill for something like that again.

Other than that, iRacing is still the way to go.

Ffs, releases 1 week after I start basic training. I'll come home to a [Censored] load of patches and moan threads

II AntR II wrote:Personally, I wouldn´t get excited for Project CARS.
The major problem here is not the variety, nor balacing, nor realism. It is league "support".
I find ridiculous the amount of workarounds that both FM5 and PCars require, at the moment, in order to organize a full-blown racing weekend.
It is terrible for the TORA staff. All that precious time spent in spreadsheets, problem solving, etc, etc, is precious time taken away from racing. Something that is not necessary!

The headaches we have... though I'm told 1.4 patch is out today for CARS so see what that does to help.
I hope FM6 is a big step up from 5 and answers a lot of their critics.
We'll find out soon enough.

I'm in touch with both dev teams so they are aware of our needs and concerns.

Matt wrote:.....I hope FM6 is a big step up from 5 and answers a lot of their critics. We'll find out soon enough.
I'm in touch with both dev teams so they are aware of our needs and concerns.

I think it is very good that you are in contact with the devs from SMS and Turn 10 BUT, are they just paying you lip service? Being able to talk to them is one thing but having them actually implement what you put forward as a request is a completely different thing. For example, as a league racing site, user created custom public lobbies would be extremely useful for our race nights, but, they are not in FM6 (apparently). User created private lobbies will be but that means you will have to invite everyone in.
In FM6, races will be either day or night but no transition, I'm willing to bet you have/would have asked for day-night-day transitions.

I could go on but it would be pointless as no matter who you can speak to at a game company, they already have their metrics from previous games and survey data and they are going to make the game they think we should have, not the game that we want to have. Whether it is technical limitations or just a case of "well you're only 250 people out of the millions we cater for", the chances of anyone actually really listening to you and making a game that TORA wants are likely to be slim to none.

A livery editor so we can replicate real life race series is something that TORA would want I am sure. Project CARS doesn't have one (I'm talking consoles here), will FM6 have one and more importantly, will you be able to gift said livery to your teammates? If not, what good is that for us?
Will you be able to tune the cars to the nth degree and share said tune with your teammates i.e. gifting, you could in FM4, will you be able to in FM6 and if not why not? That's no good for us; you can't gift tuning setups in Project CARS can you? (I really do not know whether you can or not) and if not why not?

I honestly don't think that Dan Greenawalt or Andy Tudor has had a proper look at league racing like TORA and don't forget, TORA gives these companies FREE advertising when the games appear on Motors TV. If they really looked at what league racing does and how it can galvanise a community they would actually add in the features that we need to enable a smooth and seamless TCC / Spec Cup / TEC / GT championship etc but the fact that Project CARS does not, and from what we have read about FM6 so far neither will that, means talking to them is pretty much a futile exercise. No matter what you ask for they already have their minds set on how they are going to build the game and have done probably for years as part of the development cycle.

Turn 10 claim to have dropped storefronts and gifting because they were glitched; well then, write your code better then so that they can't be glitched, don't just drop them, that's lazy. Or is the truth that they already had their minds set on another way of getting liveries out to players a la FM5; and that system was / is utter crap!

I would love it if you really did have the ear of the sim racing game developers Matt but the truth I think is that they will just feed you bs and nod politely and then go and do whatever they already had planned in the first place.

~sky~

Agreed Skyshadow, the more I read about Forza 6 the more disappointing it gets - not officially confirmed, but from what I've heard so far:

- No Clubs (they're in Forza Horizon 2 so why not?!)
- No Storefront
- No Auction House
- No on-screen sector times
- No time gap to car ahead/behind - [/b] - FEATURE IS RETURNING!
- No on-screen leaderboard information, so you never know who's leading or anything
- No dynamic time of day
- Weather on selected tracks, and track conditions do not change from lap to lap

So the only real improvements over FM5 are:

- 24 player multiplayer
- Online spectating
- 10 new tracks

At least, the last 3 'good' points will make it a much better platform for league racing than FM5 I guess.

CQR MAGiC wrote:Agreed Skyshadow, the more I read about Forza 6 the more disappointing it gets - not officially confirmed, but from what I've heard so far:

- No Clubs (they're in Forza Horizon 2 so why not?!)
- No Storefront
- No Auction House
- No on-screen sector times
- No time gap to car ahead/behind - ABSOLUTE UNFORGIVABLE IN A RACING SIM IN 2015
- No on-screen leaderboard information, so you never know who's leading or anything
- No dynamic time of day
- Weather on selected tracks, and track conditions do not change from lap to lap

So the only real improvements over FM5 are:

- 24 player multiplayer
- Online spectating
- 10 new tracks

At least, the last 3 'good' points will make it a much better platform for league racing than FM5 I guess.

If what your saying is true then Forza 6 is done for already ...the no storefront on its own is enough is kill Forza 6 before it even come out ... also Forza does NOT have different paints for their cars like project cars do.

You'll still be able to share paints but no actual storefront system like Forza 4, I'm guessing it will be very similar to Forza 5's, where you get in the car and then search for paints for that car. The Forza 4 storefront system was brilliant because you could find a creator you liked and look at all their designs for all cars.

I literally cannot stand Greenawalt, he's the biggest liar and just talks absolute nonsense about every single thing to do with the franchise. When FM6 will have only a few little extras over the previous itterations, I can't see how he's calling it "by far, the biggest Forza game we've ever made". When, so far, it seems like Forza 4 has been holding that for still quite a while.

LMR Zakspeed wrote:I literally cannot stand Greenawalt, he's the biggest liar and just talks absolute nonsense about every single thing to do with the franchise. When FM6 will have only a few little extras over the previous itterations, I can't see how he's calling it "by far, the biggest Forza game we've ever made". When, so far, it seems like Forza 4 has been holding that for still quite a while.

Could not off put it better myself

You won't like the interview he did with Team VVV then (5m25s in) - his reason for not having both night and weather together is that (paraphrashing) 'it would be too much of a challenge for the drivers to cope with'  

I think we need to have words with MR Greenawalt

I just did (well his staff anyway)



Well that's one negative off the list, they also did confirm no Car Clubs in Forza 6.

I did have a brief email exchange with them too earlier on our behalf and thanks to Mark's input that yielded similar results
Ultimately, it's only E3 so there's no doubt still so much to discover. I'll be pre-ordering my ultimate edition soon.
Oh Mark, may use your comments in the show tonight if ok?

Of course Matt, please do! It is good they're listening, I know it seems a trivial thing to have a gap indicator to the car ahead/behind but it makes such a difference in competitive racing. Motorsport is all about gaps, sectors, laptimes.

Here is where I found out what cars and tracks are in Forza 6

ttp://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/91844/forza-motorsport-6-release-date-new-features-and-car-list

CQR MAGiC wrote:I just did (well his staff anyway)



Well that's one negative off the list, they also did confirm no Car Clubs in Forza 6.

Strange thing is the HUD option was there initially in FM5, just didn't work. Then they removed the option in a later game update.

Totally agree with Skyshadow on this one, name dropping that TORA is talking to Tom, Richard or Harry means absolutely nothing. I recall TURN10 and Codemasters, if memory serves me right, were apparently listening to ideas from TORA contacts on the lead up to FM5 and GRID Autosport being released and both those titles turned out to have nothing that the TORA community suggested, proof that none of these sorts of companies listen to us or the public as a whole. The likes of Turn10 and that other group of dead weights (SMS) are making stupid amounts of cash selling millions of units and the reality of all this is...  TURN10 or SMS couldn't care less what TORA or any other online club want or ask for so don't fool yourselves, get all excited or think we're something special because we've spoken a few times to the people who half of the time don't know what's going on in their own Dev teams, yes it would be amazing that Dan or Andy listened to our input and actually incorporated our ideas and wants into their games but the truth of the matter is they won't as TORA, like many other online racing clubs, are simply small fish in a huge ocean! While Turn 10 and SMS continue to shift the number of units that they currently are means they'll never 'REALLY' be listening to the consumer.

We joined in quite late to the party with Autosport, but Codemasters have most definitely listened to our feedback with the league system in DiRT Rally, which is a much smaller budget and is going through early access stages at the moment.

SMS are also taking on our feedback and will be incorporating what they can when they can, I'm sure. They have thousands of other people to listen to so they need to balance people's needs with their time and resources; is saving replays a necessity? No, but fixing the steering bug is. As a "Community Assisted Racing Sim" they know they have to deliver what the community is looking for otherwise they're shooting themselves in the foot.

Meanwhile Turn 10 are in a different league all together as they are working directly under Microsoft. They have even more people in their ear as they are trying to make a game that MS will publish, and as much as I'm sure they'd like to make the perfect motorsport sim that we want, they just aren't going to sell as many copies as MS likes if they do. It's a difficult balance but unfortunately with MS battling PS for sales it seems as though they have an iron grip on what they'll release.