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Alan Gow takes a bitch fit over Forza 3!?

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Alan Gow takes a bitch fit over Forza 3!?

Post by nickyf1 on Mon 2 Nov 2009 - 22:52

http://consoletech.net/forum/front-page-news/598-btcc-media-office-threatening-legal-action-against-those-who-copy-their-logos.html

WHHAHAAAA?!

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Re: Alan Gow takes a bitch fit over Forza 3!?

Post by Aanenvaimennin on Mon 2 Nov 2009 - 23:06

wow....thats the least i would expect...

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Re: Alan Gow takes a bitch fit over Forza 3!?

Post by Slider S15 on Mon 2 Nov 2009 - 23:42

WOW...

Im so glad most tuning companies and such either dont care or love the free advertising, often introducing overseas users to their companies, (Such as me introducing UK Tuners Sumopower and Fensport to some Australians)

Damn you BTCC for your lack of community spirit! Shame on you for punishing your fans who just want to capture a little of the magic for themselves...

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Re: Alan Gow takes a bitch fit over Forza 3!?

Post by ckBrenneke on Tue 3 Nov 2009 - 0:13

Pretty sure I pointed this out a few days ago on another thread...

Besides, I doubt it has much to do with Alan Gow, it comes from the BTCC's media and legal offices, where they probably have very little clue what Forza 3 is all about other than cars.

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Re: Alan Gow takes a bitch fit over Forza 3!?

Post by TRE GlobeKIDD on Tue 3 Nov 2009 - 1:32

so true, and if theyre taking legal action... my FM2 career is f***'d! and so will my FM3 career Twisted Evil

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Re: Alan Gow takes a bitch fit over Forza 3!?

Post by Sam Billing1991 on Tue 3 Nov 2009 - 2:01

Looks like the only option is to use the cars privately, if the BTCC bigwigs don't know they exist, they can't take any legal action Wink TBH I can't see this stopping people from making and using replicas, just stopping them from being sold for in-game profit.

maybe we should get the BTCC to create a forza 3 account and pay them a fee from the profits of every car sold XD

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Re: Alan Gow takes a bitch fit over Forza 3!?

Post by nickyf1 on Tue 3 Nov 2009 - 8:10

What if they try to infiltrate TORA?!

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Re: Alan Gow takes a bitch fit over Forza 3!?

Post by RichXM655 on Tue 3 Nov 2009 - 9:17

TBH Forza has been skirting around some serious legal problems ever since FM2 allowed the sharing of liveries. The storefront is filled with trademark violations which could give cause for the freedom we currently enjoy to be yanked at short notice.

The current free sharing/selling of trademarked logos on the storefront exists only by the grace of no-one with legal clout objecting up to now. Compare this with another big "User-Generated-Content" game, Littlebigplanet, where anything that refers to an external IP gets "moderated".

I'm no different to most painters on here,. I imagine, doing real-world, or real-world-inspired liveries with real sponsors, making my own vinyl groups to do it, and sticking them up on the Storefront if they're decent. but I'm under no illusions that it is at best a grey area.

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Re: Alan Gow takes a bitch fit over Forza 3!?

Post by Matt on Tue 3 Nov 2009 - 9:36

Well having done IP for a number of years at Uni I will be pointing out my sincere disinterest in this topic!
I will continue to produce replicas and liveries as it shows my love and appreciation of my sport.
So what now are we going to have F1, FIA GT Le Mans ALMS NASCAR WRC WTCC etc etc etc etc teams and series all coming after us?!?!?
NO
It shows we appreciate the sport and openly promotes FREELY the series.
There should be glad of our efforts.
Boo Alan Gow and the money grabbing BTCC which hasn't provided value for money for a trackside fan for many years. Get your house in order before you start nailing your fans.




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Re: Alan Gow takes a bitch fit over Forza 3!?

Post by adam20692 on Wed 4 Nov 2009 - 17:49

i have a bamboo engineering paint scheme on my storefront and i havent had a message yet

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Re: Alan Gow takes a bitch fit over Forza 3!?

Post by Sgt JigglyMoobs on Wed 4 Nov 2009 - 17:51

tbh they can go get bonned !

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Re: Alan Gow takes a bitch fit over Forza 3!?

Post by SandstormGeorge on Fri 6 Nov 2009 - 20:17

actually i think i saw this on FM.net, i'll quote it for you.
Snowowl (FM.net) wrote:
First, I'm not a copyright attorney (nor do I even play one on stage, screen or television), but I believe the permission agreements/licensing are covered as noted within the game on the first screen (goes by too fast) when we launch FM2 and Options/Credits. The provided in-game logos, etc., are covered by the six paralegal/attorney people listed under Legal Corporate Affairs, as well the various "permission of Licensor," ". . . licensed to Microsoft Corporation," and " . . . registered trademarks owned and licensed by . . .,". . . used by Microsoft with permission of . . .," and ". . . licensed under certain patents . . ." as well as the specific Licensing Partners list.

Those items in the Manufacturer Decals in the Livery Editor, as we know, cannot have the colors changed, be saved among the Vinyl Groups or on a full car to the design catalog, I'm pretty sure that is how the rights of all the participating companies/manufacturers (Options/Credits listings) are being protected.

As to the wonderfully creative interpretations of the logos/designs, etc., done by the artists in the Livery Editor, are only used in the game itself and cannot be placed anywhere like in print media, advertisments, ads on television, etc., to perhaps circumvent the legalities under which FM2 is allowed to use the "real" things. There is also the "© 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All Rights Reserved " listed at the bottom of each page here on the forums and the website, as well as other Microsoft entities.

Such user generated content also falls under coverage in the Xbox LIVE Terms of Use in sections 12-14, and section 28, Notices, Copyright and Trademark Notices, plus Notices and Procedure for Making Claims of Copyright Infringement ("Under Title 17, United States Code, Section 512(c)(2), notifications of claimed copyright infringement should be sent to service provider's designated agent.") and the large umbrella wording:

"Respect Copyright

"Please respect the rights of artists and creators. Content such as music, photos, and video may be protected by copyright. People appearing in content may have a right to control use of their image. You may not share other people's content unless you own the rights or have permission from the owner."

So, in answer to your question, yes there are "real life" restrictions spelled out in many volumes of agreements pounded out by attorneys not only from Microsoft but all the manufacturers/companies in the game itself, but additional laws like Title 17, United States Code. However, in our (you and other Livery Editor experts, not I) usage, the "environment" for these incredibly accurate depictions is within the game itself and not commercially available in other media. That's one of the reasons people who sell lesson in games or credits in FM2 for real money/Microsoft Points/Xbox LIVE subscriptions are in violation of Xbox LIVE's Terms of Use and Code of Conduct.

Hope this answers your questions/makes sense. The Forza Motorsport franchise of games is lots of fun, but there are serious sides to the content we don't see immediately on the surface.


So actually as the logos cannot be sold for real money you are covered and they cannot take any legal action...

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Re: Alan Gow takes a bitch fit over Forza 3!?

Post by CQR Rogue on Fri 6 Nov 2009 - 20:28

Jenson09 wrote:Well having done IP for a number of years at Uni I will be pointing out my sincere disinterest in this topic!
I will continue to produce replicas and liveries as it shows my love and appreciation of my sport.
So what now are we going to have F1, FIA GT Le Mans ALMS NASCAR WRC WTCC etc etc etc etc teams and series all coming after us?!?!?
NO
It shows we appreciate the sport and openly promotes FREELY the series.
There should be glad of our efforts.
Boo Alan Gow and the money grabbing BTCC which hasn't provided value for money for a trackside fan for many years. Get your house in order before you start nailing your fans.

tottaly agree matt, its not like world of warcraft we are not ebayin paints and liverys!!!




Racing is life, anything before or after is just waiting

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Re: Alan Gow takes a bitch fit over Forza 3!?

Post by XTI Jon Snow on Fri 6 Nov 2009 - 20:34

I think that the btcc didnt do their research to find out its IN GAME money. there was probably a miscommunication, and they thought you pay with M/S points

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Re: Alan Gow takes a bitch fit over Forza 3!?

Post by Aanenvaimennin on Fri 6 Nov 2009 - 21:32

RpM Mad Monk wrote:actually i think i saw this on FM.net, i'll quote it for you.
Snowowl (FM.net) wrote:
First, I'm not a copyright attorney (nor do I even play one on stage, screen or television), but I believe the permission agreements/licensing are covered as noted within the game on the first screen (goes by too fast) when we launch FM2 and Options/Credits. The provided in-game logos, etc., are covered by the six paralegal/attorney people listed under Legal Corporate Affairs, as well the various "permission of Licensor," ". . . licensed to Microsoft Corporation," and " . . . registered trademarks owned and licensed by . . .,". . . used by Microsoft with permission of . . .," and ". . . licensed under certain patents . . ." as well as the specific Licensing Partners list.

Those items in the Manufacturer Decals in the Livery Editor, as we know, cannot have the colors changed, be saved among the Vinyl Groups or on a full car to the design catalog, I'm pretty sure that is how the rights of all the participating companies/manufacturers (Options/Credits listings) are being protected.

As to the wonderfully creative interpretations of the logos/designs, etc., done by the artists in the Livery Editor, are only used in the game itself and cannot be placed anywhere like in print media, advertisments, ads on television, etc., to perhaps circumvent the legalities under which FM2 is allowed to use the "real" things. There is also the "© 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All Rights Reserved " listed at the bottom of each page here on the forums and the website, as well as other Microsoft entities.

Such user generated content also falls under coverage in the Xbox LIVE Terms of Use in sections 12-14, and section 28, Notices, Copyright and Trademark Notices, plus Notices and Procedure for Making Claims of Copyright Infringement ("Under Title 17, United States Code, Section 512(c)(2), notifications of claimed copyright infringement should be sent to service provider's designated agent.") and the large umbrella wording:

"Respect Copyright

"Please respect the rights of artists and creators. Content such as music, photos, and video may be protected by copyright. People appearing in content may have a right to control use of their image. You may not share other people's content unless you own the rights or have permission from the owner."

So, in answer to your question, yes there are "real life" restrictions spelled out in many volumes of agreements pounded out by attorneys not only from Microsoft but all the manufacturers/companies in the game itself, but additional laws like Title 17, United States Code. However, in our (you and other Livery Editor experts, not I) usage, the "environment" for these incredibly accurate depictions is within the game itself and not commercially available in other media. That's one of the reasons people who sell lesson in games or credits in FM2 for real money/Microsoft Points/Xbox LIVE subscriptions are in violation of Xbox LIVE's Terms of Use and Code of Conduct.

Hope this answers your questions/makes sense. The Forza Motorsport franchise of games is lots of fun, but there are serious sides to the content we don't see immediately on the surface.


So actually as the logos cannot be sold for real money you are covered and they cannot take any legal action...

i could have told you that...
Im in a Copyright and trademark class in college.
Im also in a Advertising and Business class....and all of that is covered in all of the classes....
and you Mr. Mad Monk are correct. The Copyright protects everyone! Alan Gow cannot take any legal action upon Turn 10 or anybody else. Their case would be shot down almost immediately.

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Re: Alan Gow takes a bitch fit over Forza 3!?

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