Re: MSA TORA TCC Season 8 - General Discussion

by Beanz Wed 25 Sep 2013 - 23:13

The starts are fine, let's face it, a good start can help you in a race, but you can't win on the first corner.

If we're not having penalties, i'll see you guys later, while you suckers are waiting twenty seconds i've long gone!

by F4H Lotterer Wed 25 Sep 2013 - 23:17

yeah go for it beanz you can blame atlantic lag

by CQR Vapor Wed 25 Sep 2013 - 23:20

I am all for penalizing jump starters, but I think it should be an offense which can be appealed like anything else. I have a replay which I believe proves I did not jump the start of the race, but I was not allowed to produce it on my own behalf. That is what I disagreed with from the start. I am thankful for the ruling, and I hope that the appeals process remains an integral part of all SI's. If I brake a rule I deserve to be punished and I can handle that... But punishment I feel is unjust and unfair, yet is unilateral and absolute, I will take exception to and make my voice heard. As I believe everyone should.

by TLR Scrublord Wed 25 Sep 2013 - 23:22

Amarth got 2 penalties for Jump Starting, you don't see him sitting here bitching about it, just take it on the chin & carry on racing. If you want to stop racing because of that then that's a bit stupid.

by PLOW tubbi Wed 25 Sep 2013 - 23:22

All objections and comments aside, the suggestion of reverting back to the forza start is not a bad one.

Try jumping that beanz

by TFR Magic Wed 25 Sep 2013 - 23:24

CQR Vapor wrote:
TFR Magic wrote:Visible damage - more than a certain number of cars in a lobby and cosmetic damage doesn't show for performance reasons.

If anything, someone elses replay 3000 miles away wouldn't show you jumping the start, it would be in your favour.
Yes it is for performance reasons, but it makes my point that what you see on screen is not an accurate depiction of what is actually happening in the race.

Doesn't make your point at all. It's a graphics performance option, doesn't change the simulation or the telemetry.

by Beanz Wed 25 Sep 2013 - 23:29

PLOW tubbi wrote:All objections and comments aside, the suggestion of reverting back to the forza start is not a bad one.

Try jumping that beanz

*whips out flashed 360 with mods*

by Ax4x Kane Wed 25 Sep 2013 - 23:34

I don't know if Trash was being serious or not. But I find it ridiculous that all jump starters get their penalties removed. You can go 20 Seconds early or 0.001s early. You still set off before the designated time thus must be punished. It's much easier to go on the Forza default launch. I don't know why we even have parade laps? Realism?

by CQR Vapor Wed 25 Sep 2013 - 23:59

TORA has always given an ear to the members of the community and for that I think we can all be thankful... I really believe that giving out any penalty to a community member and not offering them the opportunity to appeal that decision sets a bad precedent that lessens the value of each member of the community. Like I said before, I am in favor of penalties for jump starts... I am against being penalized without the opportunity to appeal that penalty.

by TG Wormburner Thu 26 Sep 2013 - 0:11

TG Haydo wrote:Amarth got 2 penalties for Jump Starting, you don't see him sitting here bitching about it, just take it on the chin & carry on racing. If you want to stop racing because of that then that's a bit stupid.

Meh....if it was a few months ago we'd all be on here bitching but it's nearly over and most of us don't care anymore. If I was Vapor I'd be livid

by F4H Lotterer Thu 26 Sep 2013 - 0:15

right on time.
MSA TORA TCC Season 8 - General Discussion - Page 28 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR0CKkNb6czG-F9QXwfXO6mvh9OD6Nu4wGO5McqH6nYnnioRskE7g

by TG Wormburner Thu 26 Sep 2013 - 0:58

I know a lot about replay's on this game and know that no two replays are the same. If you want to penalize someone for something with a hard line based upon a time within these varying replay's you need to view all of them. Call me a troll if you'd like but I'll call the head of the stewards team dead ass wrong on this one because you are. I don't disagree with the penalize one you penalize all theory but I do disagree that someone running .033 off the start time is penalized when there is no accuracy.

Aren't you, by posting that, doing exactly what you are accusing me of doing? Isn't there a warning about this sort of behavior from staff Trash or is staff exempt from this behavior?

Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house.

by BG Wumba Thu 26 Sep 2013 - 1:14

BG Trash McNish wrote:right on time.

Responding only feeds them more Razz

by TG Wormburner Thu 26 Sep 2013 - 1:38

BG Wumba wrote:
BG Trash McNish wrote:right on time.
Responding only feeds them more

http://forums.theonlineracingassociation.com/t11516-all-members-tora-s-code-of-conduct-and-sporting-regulations-15-09-13

by **Richy59** Thu 26 Sep 2013 - 4:04

You are correct Worm. Trash, please refrain from posting such things on the forum which is only posted to entice further conversation.

The penalties will stand. I am prepared to back the stewards on the calls that have been made as I have seen the lengths they have went to for finding out the penalties that were required. However going forward there will be an appeal process for jump starts for the near future, and if this issue persists then we will look at reverting back to Forza countdown starts. Currently the starts are done in such a way to make them look good on MotorsTV.

Jump starts are against the rules in our competition, but of course there will always be errors and differences between replays that we can't eliminate. The stewards have to make a decision to try and prevent jump starts from happening in the future, especially to the degree that we saw in the last round. Some decisions will not go down well with some of the people receiving them and in this thread we have had some mixed reactions and questions raised.

If the stewards wish to carry out an appeals process for this round on a case by case basis then I will leave that decision to them. I'm sorry that this won't address everyone's concerns for this round but hopefully we can work on the procedure going forward.

by DeweyTee Thu 26 Sep 2013 - 4:40

I'd say go back to the Forza start. There are only two reasons for a jump start: 1./ Your finger slipped off the button, 2./ You are trying to gain an advantage on your competition. Some of the racers stage "deep" in their starting spot to gain a few feet.................. I wonder what else guys do to gain an advantage Question

by **Ax4x Mikey J** Thu 26 Sep 2013 - 7:30

My suggestion would be to give a little leeway, approximately the difference between replays (my guess .050 sec would suffice) This would take into account the variances in connection and location, while still punishing a definitive jumpstart.

In that vein, even NASCAR has a 5 MPH buffer when calling pit road speed penalties.

by PLOW tubbi Thu 26 Sep 2013 - 8:34

Flyin Mikey J wrote:My suggestion would be to give a little leeway, approximately the difference between replays (my guess .050 sec would suffice) This would take into account the variances in connection and location, while still punishing a definitive jumpstart.

In that vein, even NASCAR has a 5 MPH buffer when calling pit road speed penalties.

PLOW tubbi talking seriously:

Mikey, this is the most sensible forward thinking comment I've seen on here, trash / Richy, can we do this please?

The jump starts penalty stands for the last round but I suggest we get this in place for future rounds.
tora has always been about fairness for everyone, this solution I think accommodate everyone.

by **HCR Motorhead** Thu 26 Sep 2013 - 10:45

I agree with PLOW and Mikey above. In this ruling currently, everyone's under the same boat. You take longer to blink than some of these 'jump' starts. Not to mention all the replay issues aforementioned.

Why wasn't the normal Forza lobby start in use? You couldn't go wrong there. Even if it isn't as 'efficient' or whatever, you have absolute equality. This whole discussion would be entirely resolved. I'm sure TORA can refine the process to accommodate the normal Forza start.

by Ax4x Kane Thu 26 Sep 2013 - 10:57

Why not use the 1 lap race to set the grid as a parade lap? Get into position, line up on the grid and hold it for 10 seconds before crossing the line one at a time. Then go on Forza lobby 3..2..1..Go! Start for Race 1?

by **JAMIE ANDERS0N** Thu 26 Sep 2013 - 11:01

To comment about the reason we went with a parade lap.

Before we would have to set the grid by a dummy race, have the race and return to the lobby, we would then need to reset the lobby (to clear the lobby points) and then go into a new lobby, this would have to be done twice in the evening and the risk of losing people on the resetting of the lobby delayed the process of the night.

This way we stay in the lobby and are able to start racing nearly right away after the last race.

by neilracing07 Thu 26 Sep 2013 - 16:36

I like the re form on the grid start, feels better and u can benefit. If u jump start then it should have a 0.150 allowance for replay lag, whatever u want to call it. Anything after that u get penalized. if u r trawling through replays trying to find fault in others for self gain then that's a bit sad and not really in thes spirit of racing. After all its a game, your not going to win a drive for ferrari!! Get on with it.

by **Ax4x Cowboy** Thu 26 Sep 2013 - 18:54

The rules are the same for everyone and lots of people have managed to do legal starts so far.

If you allow a margin of error for the replays then how long before it gets abused and people are consistently launching at 19.9xx?

If people are confident they can launch extremely close to 20 seconds dead then they should have no problem recalibrating to launch one tenth later, avoiding any potential penalties and still getting a great start.

by PLOW tubbi Thu 26 Sep 2013 - 19:03

This is exactly what I operate on, going just a tenth later means I don't have to worry about a jump start, plus the majority of the time the guy along side you is gonna win the corner or not, that's not important, win the race after the first corner OR we could all just go and race in a public lobby.......coz that's so much fun.

by BG Wumba Thu 26 Sep 2013 - 19:35

PLOW tubbi wrote:This is exactly what I operate on, going just a tenth later means I don't have to worry about a jump start, plus the majority of the time the guy along side you is gonna win the corner or not, that's not important, win the race after the first corner OR we could all just go and race in a public lobby.......coz that's so much fun.

+1

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