Re: TORA 12 Hours of Sebring - General Discussion

by CQR Cobblepop Sat 23 Feb 2013 - 11:11

I know I'm a little off-topic but I have to say I'm disappointed that there are no lower class cars for these races as in previous endurance events.

Is it the case that the lowest class of car for the entire TEC will be the GT's?

by **LMR DarthMario** Sat 23 Feb 2013 - 11:14

no. like last year, Sebring and Le Mans used ISCC's car formats. LMP1 and GTE's. Silverstone and Nurburgring used the TORA GT's and a Clubman/GT4 group. This year is more of the same except for Silverstone and Nurburgring, were using TCC car(s) as the lower class. unclear yet as to the 5th event in the calendar

by CQR Cobblepop Sat 23 Feb 2013 - 11:19

Ah ok, thanks for the response. I wasn't around in the early part of last year and wasn't aware of the format.

Good news all round really as I know there won't be any balancing issue's with the TCC cars lol!

by F4H Lotterer Sat 23 Feb 2013 - 11:28

funny how the bitching only starts when people dont get the car they wanted ,if there was that much of a balance issue maybe someone should of piped up at a earlier date.

by CQR NEON Sat 23 Feb 2013 - 11:33

IRT Trash wrote:funny how the bitching only starts when people dont get the car they wanted ,if there was that much of a balance issue maybe someone should of piped up at a earlier date.

Tbh nothing would get resolved even if it was raised at an early date. No doubt a massive argument would happen and people would say otherwise blah blah

by **Koenigsegg R** Sat 23 Feb 2013 - 11:47

CQR Aero wrote:Are you picking cars for Sebring or Le Mans? I haven't seen anything anywhere that says that we've locked these builds for the whole TEC (just throwing this out there as my personal POV, not an "official TORA comment"). Could the cars be rebalanced for each round?

I asked this at page 5.

F4H Koenigsegg wrote:I know car list is the same for Le Mans. But will the builds also be the same for Le Mans?

No staff replied.

This was asked at page 6.

XPR Roadrunner wrote:I know these cars are supposed to be similar to the upcoming ISCC builds (or at least I'm lead to believe that) but with the current builds the Viper is at least 1 full second slower than any other car on the list at Sebring and a whopping 2-3s slower at Le Mans than the majority of the list again.

equal?....

EDIT: I say this because I want to bring SRT over again to TORA, and I don't want to go thru that business (they are looking into Social media options for the race, atm) just to have us sit there in C lobby, get no attention and finish near the bottom (assuming no crashes and lagouts).

it isn't a done deal yet, but this is making me reconsider doing this, as is all of XPR

This was replied (staff member).

SelectiveRogue wrote:yep builds wont change, I understand but from testing group and team no issue was found with the viper

So yes, builds for Sebring and Le Mans are the same.

I also asked this earlier on at page 6.

F4H Koenigsegg wrote:So are these builds final?

Or will they change (as usual) when someone post a super quick lap time?

This was replied (staff member) after a few other messages.

IRT Trash wrote:no this should be good to go , unless someone has a real valid reason to nurf a car .

My question above was not immediately directed at Le Mans. It actually is, but you have to read between the lines there, which is hard on a forum.

by **Koenigsegg R** Sat 23 Feb 2013 - 11:48

CQR NEON wrote:
IRT Trash wrote:funny how the bitching only starts when people dont get the car they wanted ,if there was that much of a balance issue maybe someone should of piped up at a earlier date.

Tbh nothing would get resolved even if it was raised at an early date. No doubt a massive argument would happen and people would say otherwise blah blah

+1

by Racert46 Sat 23 Feb 2013 - 11:49

IRT Trash wrote:funny how the bitching only starts when people dont get the car they wanted ,if there was that much of a balance issue maybe someone should of piped up at a earlier date.

When i said something on twitter about the car balance one week ago TORA staff said that the car list was good and tested.... but entry list show´s something else.

There is no point bringing this up Trash, we have done this in the past and always get negative response from a certian staff memeber when we question about rules or car lists.

by MT2 Levin Sat 23 Feb 2013 - 11:50

IRT Trash wrote:funny how the bitching only starts when people dont get the car they wanted ,if there was that much of a balance issue maybe someone should of piped up at a earlier date.

IIRC some people did say there was a balance issue, but were told that the cars ARE balanced.

My question is: why are people being allowed to change cars now after they have signed up? If I read right, doesn't it say in the rules that this is not allowed??

by **CQR Rogue** Sat 23 Feb 2013 - 11:55

SelectiveRogue wrote:cheers all for feedback staff are taking note remember constructive criticism with feedback of how to implement new ideas is best

I still believe cars are balanced for Sebring and understand concerns for Le Mans which I have raised with rest of staff cheers all

by **CQR Rogue** Sat 23 Feb 2013 - 11:58

Also I ment for Sebring Koenigsegg builds wont change as far as I was aware I already raised questions over Le Mans Builds to staff

Like I said above constructive criticism with feedback of how to implement new ideas is best do you all think we wont listen lol

We are but lets get some constructive criticism as well.

by **Koenigsegg R** Sat 23 Feb 2013 - 12:15

Builds shouldn't change for Le Mans. I believe teams wanted these cars because they also thought about how it would perform at Le Mans. At least that's what F4H did. If the builds change for Le Mans, then all the testing that is done for Le Mans becomes unnecessary. And your car might suddenly be way of pace (or to quick) at Le Mans then you thought it would be.

by Adder 020 Sat 23 Feb 2013 - 12:25

F4H Koenigsegg wrote:Builds shouldn't change for Le Mans. I believe teams wanted these cars because they also thought about how it would perform at Le Mans. At least that's what F4H did. If the builds change for Le Mans, then all the testing that is done for Le Mans becomes unnecessary. And your car might suddenly be way of pace (or to quick) at Le Mans then you thought it would be.

We also tested for both.
it would be ridiculous if the PI's are going to get changed for Le Mans.

by PURE IMPERIUM Sat 23 Feb 2013 - 12:30

We also had a quick test for Lemans....just glad we got one of our car choices....didnt want to use anything else !!

by Guest Sat 23 Feb 2013 - 12:39

IRT Trash wrote:funny how the bitching only starts when people dont get the car they wanted ,if there was that much of a balance issue maybe someone should of piped up at a earlier date.

I did, privately, well over a week ago, so don't pull any of that old 'we didn't hear anything about it' nonsense.

by **CQR Rogue** Sat 23 Feb 2013 - 12:41

cheers all for feeback and it is been noted

Smile

Like I said car caps seem to be biggest issue at the moment and teams been able to submit multiple entrys

by F4H Lotterer Sat 23 Feb 2013 - 12:41

no that was 1 car that was proven to have no issues by multiple clubs.

by Guest Sat 23 Feb 2013 - 12:46

The same car that you were 'so confident in you would run it yourself' and then promptly chose the Abruzzi instead when your chosen car was unavailable... Sorry Trash you've lost all credibility from me regarding this. Anyway, I'm not going to race in the TEC, so I shall do the right thing and leave the thread. Cheerio.

by CQR Cobblepop Sat 23 Feb 2013 - 13:22

I have a suggestion. It's nothing new and has already been proposed and singled out in this thread but I intend to qualify it a little more.

Get rid of the individual car caps.

I see it's purpose as nothing more than artificial. If - as has been suggested - it is used to promote diversity within the field of entrants and to bring a close representation to real world racing, then I say we can do without it.

Let me ask you a question: What do people talk about at the end of a race?

Do they talk of the fantastic mix of cars and the true embodiment of a real world counterpart...

...Or do they say, wow, that was a fantastic race, we had an epic battle for 15 laps. It was side by side action all the way!

Hopefully you get where I'm going with this. I feel that we sometimes lose touch with why we're all here. We're here to have fun and to enjoy the close competitive racing that we know can be achieved. I'm not trying to say that people don't care about having a good variety of cars and that echoing the real world isn't important at all, It's just that I don't think it's as important as the provision of good, fair and competitive racing. As it stands now, the car cap seems to be obstructing that somewhat.

Also, I think It's worth saying that without the cap, diversity will come from effective car balancing. If the cars truly are well balanced, we should see a decent amount of variety from preference alone.

Some of the things I've said have already been stated by others and whilst some may be inclined to think I'm jumping on the bandwagon, I see it as a consensus of opinion and it adds weight to the points raised above.

by **CQR Rogue** Sat 23 Feb 2013 - 13:23

CQR Cobblepop wrote:I have a suggestion. It's nothing new and has already been proposed and singled out in this thread but I intend to qualify it a little more.

Get rid of the individual car caps.

I see it's purpose as nothing more than artificial. If - as has been suggested - it is used to promote diversity within the field of entrants and to bring a close representation to real world racing, then I say we can do without it.

Let me ask you a question: What do people talk about at the end of a race?

Do they talk of the fantastic mix of cars and the true embodiment of a real world counterpart...

...Or do they say, wow, that was a fantastic race, we had an epic battle for 15 laps. It was side by side action all the way!

Hopefully you get where I'm going with this. I feel that we sometimes lose touch with why we're all here. We're here to have fun and to enjoy the close competitive racing that we know can be achieved. I'm not trying to say that people don't care about having a good variety of cars and that echoing the real world isn't important at all, It's just that I don't think it's as important as the provision of good, fair and competitive racing. As it stands now, the car cap seems to be obstructing that somewhat.

Also, I think It's worth saying that without the cap, diversity will come from effective car balancing. If the cars truly are well balanced, we should see a decent amount of variety from preference alone.

Some of the things I've said have already been stated by others and whilst some may be inclined to think I'm jumping on the bandwagon, I see it as a consensus of opinion and it adds weight to the points raised above.

Personal comment from me - I like this ^^^