Sunday's Race - LAG again...

Hi all,

1st thank you for hosting the Sunday's race, but I do not understand the Enormous amount Lag in the lobby's.

I lost connection last night in the first race and first lab. I decided to do a test and disconnect all devices in the house and still lost connection.

After that I joined a random online race with 16 racers in and all my devices connected and had ZERO lag.

How is this possible?    

Because the game is peer to peer.

Where in the world are you located?

It is not server based.

What is your download and upload speed, ping rate etc>?

Roque Thank you for the reply, even though it is peer to peer, there should kind of be consistency.  
 
I am Based in Namibia/Windhoek - Coordinates: 22°34′12″S 17°5′1″E
 
I will get the ping Up/Down load speeds.
 
I mean the whole night last night I raced random race lobbies and experienced 0% lag.
 
Will update as requested.
 
Cheers :-)

Sorry, please find throughput on ADSL that was done last night in conjunction Sunday's race.

I really hope to get this resolved as I like the races and tight competition, but frustrating to all racers once lag/latency becomes a problem. :-(

Take a test at http://www.speedtest.net/, it will show your what you internets performance is.

Thank you will do that test tonight :-)

This is nothing to do with TORA, connection issues are user created not TORA created I am afraid.

It is very frustrating but unfortunately is down to the user(s) to make sure they have the correct settings, this could be down to yourself or the host as well.

Follow the below links and make sure you open all your ports etc -

http://forums.theonlineracingassociation.com/t9661-connectivity-issues

Roque Afternoon,

All do respect, I know the difference between Forza and TORA. I know that TORA does not own the servers, but merely host the race/lobby's.

I just trying to resolve the latency problem for my self to a better experience.

PS: My NAT setting is Open and my Xbox is an expose host on my network and Upnp is activated.

I know you do but nothing much we can do unfortunately if it was all your lobby sounds liek a upload issue lets see your upload speed later.

Roque, Thanks will do.

When you do your http://www.speedtest.net/ try using a server based in the UK to see how your connection fares over that distance. Unfortunately if you are seeing virtually everyone lag on your screen it is probably down to your connection. I'm not 100% sure on this but when you join a random lobby, Forza will put you in a lobby with the best connection, which will most likely be with people from your part of the world.

Roll on Forza 5 with its dedicated servers.

@Hainsey and whoever else thinks dedicated servers are the fix all for bad internet.

It will not matter one single bit if it's dedicated servers and the hub's in your front lawn. If you lag, you will still lag. Forza runs peer to peer, there is no server that could do anything to help you out whatsoever. A tiny bit runs through a Turn 10/MS server, the determined host of the room (not the lobby host pre-race) has to transfer a tiny bit more info than the other people, while all of those other people send and receive the same amount of info. It isn't pinging to a server from everyone and then back to you. I imagine the latency issues that would come with that would be catastrophic for some.

You can have a connection running a gig a second and if you're running multiple wireless devices you're going to lag if your Xbox also runs wireless. If you're wired and your wiring in your home runs over fluorescent lighting you could lag. Noise in the line by a nut that's loose on a splitter, lag. Gold plated splitters create lag and noise for your internet, great for your tv though. There are so many things that create problems that dedicated servers do not have a snowballs chance in hell of fixing nor will they ever.

I see from his downstream test he's getting under .4 mbps on download. I don't know if that's a measure of the actual data being transferred or if that is a speed test. If it's his speed that's ummmmm.....not so good.

Every lagging problem you see is user based. All of them. If someone consistently lags they have crap service or a crap connection on it's way to the service. They can argue until they are blue in the face but it's them. There are a lot of people that play Forza, ever notice it's the same one's week in and week out that lag? Ever notice when lobbies blow up and people get sent to their own room or whatever else that a person with bad lag (packet loss) is present?

Dedicated servers will help enormously for people with slow connections, especially slow upstreams (ADSL in the UK is notoriously bad for slow upstreams). With a 16 player lobby in Forza 4, there are 15 connections between each players Xboxes, with dedicated servers there's just one. So you don't have to send the data to everyone else, just the server - so in effect a 16 player race will have the same data requirements as a 2 player race in Forza 4. Obviously it won't make any difference to packet loss/lag caused by noise/interference/Wi-Fi/someone streaming Netflix, but in my experience the biggest cause of packet loss and lag is when the upstream becomes saturated - i.e. there's not enough bandwidth available to maintain/service the connection, leading to a huge spike that manifests as a lag bomb or disconnection (voice chat breaking up while racing is a big clue towards upstream saturation). With less data needing to be sent, dedicated servers should indirectly help reduce packet loss caused by saturation.

Magic - I think you are spot on, but getting that knowledge/idea past Turn 10, mmmm hope that they would start listening to customers what they want and not what they think customers need.

Well the good news is, Turn 10 have said that Forza Motorsport 5 on Xbox One will have dedicated servers, they haven't said how many players yet, but 16 should be easy to do with dedicated servers (I'm hoping for 24 though!).

There is no excuse for lag. TORA has shown everyone that races here how to sort thier connections out. I know someone that used to have 0.5 m/bs upload & never lagged out just because he had everything sorted. If you're having trouble with your connection just follow what they have said and it will be all fine and dandy

Don't really agree with that, if your connections too slow, you will lag when your connection cannot physically cope with sending the data. I used to have a 384kbit upstream, my car would start lagging and voice chat breaking up for other people once there were more than 8-10 cars in a lobby, I didn't have enough upstream bandwidth to transmit the data to everyone else in the lobby. I got upgraded to 512kbit upstream, and then 12-14 car lobbies were OK, the extra bandwidth was sufficient to transmit the data. Luckily, I've got 7Mb upstream now, so never have any issues lol

TG Haydo wrote:There is no excuse for lag. TORA has shown everyone that races here how to sort thier connections out. I know someone that used to have 0.5 m/bs upload & never lagged out just because he had everything sorted. If you're having trouble with your connection just follow what they have said and it will be all fine and dandy

Haydo, again, no one said it was TORA's issue or blamed TORA. It is your choice, do you want some one to be in the lobby with lag or with out lag?

I am just trying to resolve a problem so that I and the other players around me have the same experience.

Regards to "There is no excuse for lag." You have not been in a 3rd world country lately... I will play Forza and the next moment a lion will run past me.. hahaha.  

PS: Thank you all for the info, will do test tonight and see if I can resolve the "lag" issue.

From what I've experienced, if you're not from America or Britain, you're most likely going to lag.

Bandit the US isn't even close to the best for internet and neither is England. We both aren't even in the top 10.

Magic, it will not matter if they have dedicated servers if the person cannot handle the up and download requirements for the game. That is the issue at hand, especially with a .4 download speed. Come FM5 there will be even more data to send and receive as well.

TG Wormburner wrote:Bandit the US isn't even close to the best for internet and neither is England. We both aren't even in the top 10.

Magic, it will not matter if they have dedicated servers if the person cannot handle the up and download requirements for the game. That is the issue at hand, especially with a .4 download speed. Come FM5 there will be even more data to send and receive as well.

Since a majority of users are from Britain or America, it makes it difficult for people in other areas to connect in TORA events. And it may be why maj has lag problems on TORA but not in public lobbies; he may be with players that are more local to him.

I doubt there are more people playing the game close to him by his description of his surroundings. Public lobbies generally have less people, no paints (big deal), paints with less layers, and no custom lobby settings.

Where exactly do you live? I had a friend that went to school here that was from Zimbabwe. His family had a ton of land but had to get out when the invasions got close to them.

TG Wormburner wrote:Bandit the US isn't even close to the best for internet and neither is England. We both aren't even in the top 10.

Magic, it will not matter if they have dedicated servers if the person cannot handle the up and download requirements for the game. That is the issue at hand, especially with a .4 download speed. Come FM5 there will be even more data to send and receive as well.

Gonna have to agree to disagree on this one lol. Dedicated servers will massively reduce the upload requirements - which for users of asynchronus connections like ADSL (typically 10 times faster download than upload) will greatly reduce lag. Ballpark figure is you need 40kbit upload per person in the lobby for peer-to-peer connection a, so a typical UK upload speed of 512kbit is good for 12-14 players. With dedicated servers that upload requirement drops to just ~ 40kbit - even if Turn 10 increase the amount of data being sent it will still be significantly lower than at present. You are correct that the download requirements will be the same, but that data will be coming from Microsoft's Azure clouds, rather than direct from some poor struggling, saturated upstream. PC sims that use dedicated servers can easily support 64 players, the upstream saturation is not a problem like it is with P2P.

As for our friend who's been experiencing lag here, that does appear to be a case of just a very slow connection (both upstream and downstream), sadly even dedicated servers can't help if there's not enough band with available.

TG Wormburner wrote:I doubt there are more people playing the game close to him by his description of his surroundings. Public lobbies generally have less people, no paints (big deal), paints with less layers, and no custom lobby settings.

Where exactly do you live? I had a friend that went to school here that was from Zimbabwe. His family had a ton of land but had to get out when the invasions got close to them.

Jip, Zim is a bad place to be in at the moment.

I stay in Namibia/Windhoek. Namibia has only a population of 2.5 million people and a lot of Game, hence one of our biggest income is overseas trophy hunters and tourism.