TORA Nürburgring 8 Hours - General Discussion

Really looking forward to this.

Le Mans and Britcar were awesome, let's go tear up the the ring

I agree, the SP1 Cup isn't a fair class just now. I set limits of 10, 6 and 12 initially over 2 lobbies. This limit was blown out the water and I had to re-adjust them. I would like more SP1 Cup cars but the way the Entry looks again, there will only be about 4 SP3 cars per lobby with everyone in faster cars.

Around the Ring that will be incredibly boring, hence why I have closed the sign ups for the fast cars just now until SP3 fills up.

Ideally I would have left SP1 Cup out as I don't see the need for it, but I was out voted.

If I was to give more spaces to SP1 Cup I would have to remove some people from SP1 currently, and that will cause just as much hell.

Until more people sign up in SP3 I'll be keeping the fast classes closed, but if we reach a point where there is plenty I will open up SP1 Cup again for entries.

Consider SP1 closed fully now, unless anyone in SP1 wants to switch into SP1 Cup to make the racing better?

And initially, I made the SP1 Cup car better to make it race directly against SP1. I was going to score the Cup car in the same group as SP1 - and SP1 Cup would have been scored on it's own 'for fun' but not in terms of the Championship. It's been pointed out to me that the way the rules are written it says there are 3 classes and SP1 Cup will get it's own scoring, so people have based their car choices off that. There are open seats in SP1 Cup for the people who want to win this and have a chance to, so if they want to directly compete in a small class then that's what they should do. It will make the race to the championship even closer.

The TEC this year was never planned to be an actual point scoring championship, hence why we had a variety of classes and different number of classes at the events. This changed after Simon made a points table after Britcar, and everyone started taking it seriously. We can't go back and change things, and we still want to create good racing for the full field. In my opinion, Le Mans with 2 classes was the best one we had as the split was pretty even and it was fair.

Next season for 2013 in the TEC it will be a points scoring championship from the outset, and there will only 2 classes for every round throughout the year. The actual cars will change depending on the venue, but not as much as they have this year.

personally at this point, IMO the SP1 cup class needs to go. with it being locked at 4 then the lobbies won't match, being unfair to other drivers and more so giving an advantage in the points to the Cup drivers...

either open it to 6 and drop the last to 2 SP1 entries or just drop the class. keeping it locked now and only allow Sp3 class to be open will continue to cause the above said problem/flaw in the race. You guys made teams move classes before to force a two class enduro, probably should do it again

Very nice that you are explaning the if's and why's.
I really appreciate it.

I don't think it needs to go to be honest, why would the 10+ drivers that enter be punshed because the up-take was low at the moment? We have run a class this year with similair numbers so why would we change the goal posts now? As you can see the teams have entered have entered bacause they want to the run that car in that class whith no knoledge of the class uptake. This is MY favorate car in the game and if it's avaliable I will be running it and as you can see we are just using the same car/team/paint form our ISCC team so it's again not something i'm entering to 'gain points' as some people see to be pointing towards.

Once SP3 has field filled up we will re-open SP1cup where SP1 will remain closed, and I am also sure if anyone in SP1 wanted to move to a Cup car this move would be welcomed! In terms of the on take racing the pace is 'almost' as fast as the full SP1 so there will be no shortage of people race so i wouldn't be concered about that either.

SP1 Cup is opened for 4 more spaces, and if they don't fill up then you can't moan

The more people you guys tell about the race the better, as we may even get a 4th lobby running. The more teams and drivers that enter then the more on track racing there will be, and the more cars that will become available. I have yet to see some teams enter that said they would after Britcar and a few regulars haven't entered either.

Scoring them separately is where the problem is. I might understand if you have Porsche 911s uncapped, as they usually dominate the grid at the ring, but to run them separate is just causing problems.

Nonetheless, I'm looking at my options to fill the class. I just don't think it's intelligent to make it a class to begin with.

I never even knew points were being scored for this. Where squatteth this mystical points table?

Somewhere in the TEC general folder, I think.

I'm not even whining for a points-standpoint. I'm whining for a "it's useless to have 3 classes in a 16 car lobby" standpoint.

we should run this on rfactor 2 next year lol

Yeah. 16 teams into 3 classes per lobby is quite tricky. It'll have to be 6,5,5. And with only 5 or so Cup teams anyway, it'll be better to put them in lobby A. Or else they'd be 1 or 2 in each lobby for them.

17 SP1 teams = about 5/6 per lobby
5 SP1 teams = about 1/2 per lobby
10? SP3 teams = 3/4 per lobby

Next year will be better with 8 of each class per lobby

rfactor 2 would be awesome. It's just so damn expensive

Kilroy8 wrote:Yeah. 16 teams into 3 classes per lobby is quite tricky. It'll have to be 6,5,5. And with only 5 or so Cup teams anyway, it'll be better to put them in lobby A. Or else they'd be 1 or 2 in each lobby for them.

17 SP1 teams = about 5/6 per lobby
5 SP1 teams = about 1/2 per lobby
10? SP3 teams = 3/4 per lobby

Next year will be better with 8 of each class per lobby

rfactor 2 would be awesome. It's just so damn expensive

You are all completely missing the point.

It will be 8 SP1 and 7 SP3, as SP1 and SP1cup will be clumped together, thought it was clear from the rules. SP1cup is a sub class?

But it will be in it's own group (colour blue?) & scored independently? In that case it is effectively a class in it's own right. So there will be 1 or 2 SP1 Cup teams in a lobby.

The wording is a bit ambiguous, imo. The rules says there are 2 overall classes that will be scored, but-

Here's the issue for most people-

The SP1 Cup is listed separately, giving the impression that it is it's own separate class. The question here, is, will SP1 and SP1 Cup be scored together? If so, that means SP1 Cup will be a disadvantage to the SP1 cars? I haven't driven the car, so I don't know it's relative speed, other than for the VLN it was 5-6 seconds off the pace at the minimum.

OR, B, they will be scored together, and then AFTERWARDS, the SP1 Cup will be scored as a separate class?

The problem with that is how this scoring will be implemented for the TEC, whether the listing goes as, for example, 1st in SP1 Cup or 8th in SP1?

It will run like the race does it real life, all the classes will run in one race against each other. Then at the end there will be class winners, just like in the ISCC, Britcar and the other TEC events.

05 BMW M3 needs a PI of 580, it can't match the other RWD because its so heavy.

Ianmr wrote:It will run like the race does it real life, all the classes will run in one race against each other. Then at the end there will be class winners, just like in the ISCC, Britcar and the other TEC events.

That doesn't answer my question. Chris's initial query was that the people in the SP1 Cup class had an advantage of scoring well in terms of the TEC because they had far fewer entrants in the class, and the signups to said class were cut off at four, where SP1 had 17 teams.

You said we were "missing the point", and you said the lobby setup will be 8 SP1's and 7 SP3's. But if you're scoring SP1 and SP1 Cup separately at the end, then the lobby set up isn't 8 SP1-7 SP3, its 6 SP1-2 SP1 Cup-7 SP3, or something to this effect.

8th in SP1 and 1st in SP1 Cup points-wise are two very different things, explain explicitly (so we are no longer confused ) how SP1-Cup will be scored, in terms of the TEC. Thank you

I'm glad to see a discussion about this. It is only through these discussions and conversations that great events like this will get ironed out for the future.

I was referring to how the lobbies will be split up so we have fun racing.

And yes they will be scored separately, i dont see why people are moaning about an 'advantage' they only way this could 100% be controlled is if we have to force people to run in different classes to have 100% even numbers and even skill level in each class. The TEC standing is not a 'official' scoring so i don't see what the big deal is. IF we look back to Sebring we have people who have taken 50 points for winning LMP2 yet there where only 4 or so cars? How is that fair on the people that at that stage raced in GT or LMP1 where there were much higher enterant levels? Again at Silverstone there were not even number s in each class.......

Next year we plan to change all this have a championship built over 6 or so events where we will have controlled classes at each event to ensure it is fair.....and dare i say it even a prize at the end of it up for grabs. This year has just been 4 stand alone events which Simon thought it would be interesting to add the points up for.

Okay, thank you for clarifying the ambiguity!

SP1 and SP1 Cup will be scored individually, so yes this will have an affect on the 'Championship'

However, as SP1 and SP1 Cup are of a similar pace they will be qualified together. This means that there will not be an even class split in SP1 Cup and they will feature in the lobby and around the cars they have qualified close to. So an SP1 Cup car could be on pole with one other SP1 Cup car in A lobby, where there may be 4 other SP1 Cup cars in B Lobby, and 2 in C Lobby etc etc.

As has been said, there have been races where only 4 cars featured in a class and if it were not for a points table been added 'for fun' then this wouldn't have been taken so seriously. Maybe I should just remove the points table and leave it as a stand alone unofficial Championship like was planned at the start of the year?

I have tried to get more SP1 Cup cars in, but the more I add the less SP3 cars enter. I was considering taking SP1 down to 14 and asking the last 3 teams that entered to pick another class, and then adding those 3 spaces to SP1 Cup.

I am of the mind frame that successful enduro events have had two classes. Me personally, I think SP1 Cup should be absorbed by SP1 and then it makes life sooooooooooooooooo much easier for you guys and those in the Porsches (Sp1 cup) would have better racing. That's just my two cents anyway. Two class enduro events has worked for you successfully in the past and also for VM.

Richy59 wrote:However, as SP1 and SP1 Cup are of a similar pace they will be qualified together. This means that there will not be an even class split in SP1 Cup and they will feature in the lobby and around the cars they have qualified close to. So an SP1 Cup car could be on pole with one other SP1 Cup car in A lobby, where there may be 4 other SP1 Cup cars in B Lobby, and 2 in C Lobby etc etc.

Good. THAT was what I wanted to know. I didn't want there to be some ambiguous number of Sp3 cars in a lobby to make up for a poorly-split class. This makes me (as an Sp3 driver/owner and Sp1 owner) a lot happier for the overall quality of racing on a track where its likely you won't see a car after lap 4 regardless.

Richy59 wrote:As has been said, there have been races where only 4 cars featured in a class and if it were not for a points table been added 'for fun' then this wouldn't have been taken so seriously. Maybe I should just remove the points table and leave it as a stand alone unofficial Championship like was planned at the start of the year?

YES. Just end the clownery and tomfoolery and cut the "championship greed" out of it all.

I just found out that the Ford Escort Cosworth we've been testing can only get to proper PI by being highly illegal (PI570, 380hp, 2601lbs). I didn't assume something at the bottom of the weight can be that high powered, so I didn't think about it being illegal.

Would this mean a car swap is practically required for cars #951 and #66?