MSA TORA NATCC Season 2 - General Discussion

Gonna come and run some laps as just got home from work, got a couple hours till bed time to spare, you around Mark?

DTechPR wrote:

Hailfire97x wrote:100% agreed, Mr. Bruno!

Case in point: Darkside and I got into it accidentally in turn 1 a couple races ago, and being impromptu host I had to make that uncomfortable call (which benefited myself) to restart. Only difference was everyone in the lobby said it was fine, because the ensuing bottleneck was unfair to everyone else as well. But I'd have had no problems explaining that to the stewards, so all's fair.

Hailfire,

In that case, I presume that there was involved more than two cars, so if the host make the call to restart, and all competitors accepting his/her call, all competitors are involved in his/her agreement. There are not evidence against of him.

Yeah it was no big deal, he got like the absolute last tread of his outside tire in the sticky sand(Sedona) and got rear-ended by me, which caused a few other cars to get some damage, so calling the restart was the best idea.

I'm okay with restarts, albeit set to 1 restart, so for 3 races you would get 3 restarts, and the only way I would make it a SI if it involves the same person hitting someone for each restart, like if I would hit DTech at the start of races 2 and 3, that would enquire a SI, or if DTech divebombed on race 3 and took out 5th on back, just stuff like that, but for little taps and an overcorrect and then collateral damage, shouldnt have to be taken to the stewards, otherwise we'd be running in single file 400+ feet from each other for afraid of contact

I think we shouldn't let Meet 6 pass without mentioning that this is the first time someone other than a Renault driver scored the most points. LMR DarthMario put the Honda into first. Granted, it was followed by three more Renaults, but baby steps none the less! Hooray variety!

Can something please be done about the 50% ruling on restarts.

When other drivers in front of you get it all wrong trying to win the race in the first corner the following drivers cannot all avoid the accident with cars spinning everywhere, all picking up damage, and the inoccents caught up in this poor driving and up treking round the whole lap, just to pit, with no repairs to aero, and the original spastic drivers getting straight with next to no damage and continuing the race enjoying themselves along the way.

Great way to empty the qualifying lobbies

what's going on??? if staff are not made aware how can we act?

SelectiveRogue wrote:what's going on??? if staff are not made aware how can we act?

If I could attempt to translate:

-Leaders bomb it into turn 1 at high-aggression.
-Cars behind have to brake at awkward intervals to avoid contact with lead cars
-Chain reaction in back few rows
-Cars in back have minor damage and position disadvantage while cars in front have no damage and are in front.

While I don't know the referenced incident, I have noticed similar occurrences. Especially in race 3.

In my opinion, the FWD/RWD split has a very poor (possibly overlooked) side-effect:
FWD cars are slower from a standing start, where RWD cars have a very good launch. Some of the more aggressive, overly-serious FWD drivers will jump in front of the RWDs in order to hold them back. This causes one of two things; either the RWD car hits the FWD car, causing an incident and possible restart/SI, or the RWD car stops and bottlenecks the cars behind them in order to avoid contact.

Mixed-drivetrains were great for people who are more comfortable with RWD cars (Team Indie's Volvos and Hailfire Racing's Vauxhall, mainly), but has caused an incident that has thus-far been avoided in the first few years of TORA.

its part of racing. look a the actual tcc. its all about drivers respecting others and paying attention. yes race 3 is made alot tougher but its part of the fun.

^ +1

Cosmetic damage...problems solved.

I've found that racing too much with cosmetic damage kind of causes over-aggressive driving. If people have to suffer with the damage they get in the opening few turns rather than get a restart every time they get a bit of damage, they might relearn "patience" and not try to pass the whole field in the first lap.

I relearned this lesson while hobbling through the first two races in the Mustang at Silverstone, by race three, I "got it".

"you don't win the race by being 1st to turn 1"

forget who said that

Cosmetic Damage popularizes aggressive driving and risky and pretty stupid moves, just look at the online lobbies you can join in on.

Fact is the system of damage in TORA events DOES work, but there are people who are either new to racing that competitively with the added risk of damage on impact, or who are just not cautious enough to avoid major incidences when overtaking or racing alongside another car during a tight section.

LMR DarthMario wrote:"you don't win the race by being 1st to turn 1"

forget who said that

The one I remember is (I think it was Jackie Stewart)

"Not many races are won in the first turn, but many are lost there"

Agreed Mikey, and quick question to anyone reading and considering this debate in their own experiences.

Would you rather:

A - Go for the win in the first turn, fly through the grid from the back, and risk wiping yourself and other people out, with the least being minor aero damage that you then have to carry, max being doing a whole lap with damage in order to pit and be referenced in a SI after the race is over.

B - Take your time, drive slow in order to allow the pack to spread out, be patient and leave plenty of room into the first corner and around the first lap, more likely to lose time on another driver of equal performance, BUT you don't cause or take any damage, you gain the respect of fellow drivers, and you can feel proud of wherever you finished as you deserved it.

C- Who care's, GIVE ME PIE!!!!!!!!

hope that's a rhetorical multiple-choice question Chris?

obviously, the answer would be "C"!!!

I'll say D - B & C

Na i added C as a false answer lol.

But seriously I'd rather be the B driver, a Trophy isn't worth as much without the respect of your fellow drivers, I believe champions are respected by their personalities more than their skills.

Hamilton vs Button for example.

Nah...they'll never learn. SI's would still exist to prevent over aggressive driving and peoples races and series wont be ruined. VM got it right.

That perfect world theory of everyone driving clean reminds me of an old saying...shyt in one hand, wish in the other and see which hand fills up first.

BloodYCaiN wrote:Nah...they'll never learn. SI's would still exist to prevent over aggressive driving and peoples races and series wont be ruined. VM got it right.

Just gonna say it and I apologise to any VM loyalists.

I don't care about VM, I like the way TORA staff have it here, if I didn't, I wouldn't be here now, and neither would many others, yes there are people who race for both communities, and some prefer their settings but I am sure just as many would back me up in saying TORA are just as good and hard-working.

Either way you will always have aggressive driving, no avoiding it completely, that is why the SI's are there to review the drivers, it is the DRIVERS and their actions that cause the incidents, not the settings.

SI's only work for habitual offenders. They dont bring races back or make up for lost points. For the general racers theyre basically useless cuz the punishments are too soft. My point was...races and series (not to mention real life events) arent ruined with cosmetic damage. That very important fact still stands. The lag and crap damage physics on Forza should already be reason enough to use cosmetic damage.

Not really, as you don't simulate full warm tires, tire wear, fuel consumption or anything else when using Cosmetic, as well as being a hell less realistic with it.

Your point is: Because Forza isn't realistic, we shouldn't use Simulation damage, but that just means you're making the races even less realistic surely?

well you will be pleased to know that a new driver punishment structure has come into force this week , all details will be revealed in the news

To be honest, I very rarely get taken out at the start of a race; regardless of position. Drivers should be aware of cars ALL AROUND THEM. Look behind you, look at the gap you're driving into, anticipate what will happen.

Just because someone smashes into the back of you does not necessarily mean that you're not at fault in anyway.

STR Warspite GB wrote:Not really, as you don't simulate full warm tires, tire wear, fuel consumption or anything

You just named three things that either ultimately have zero to do with the excitement of the race or only even matter on endurance races. In the grand scheme of things...all three are minimal priority for a fully satisfied group of drivers at the end of race and series. If rules that frustrate alot of people, ruin races and feelings towards the site can be easily avoided...they should. Just an opinion.