Re: MSA TORA Maximum Group VAG Trophy - General Discussion

by CQR MAGiC Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 17:12

I'm looking to enter the series and Stan asked for the opinions of drivers who are eligible, if you don't agree with my opinion I really don't care, it's up to Stan and the staff to make the rules.

by SECR Marko1100 Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 17:14

Standaman94 wrote:Alright, interesting points, but there's some confusion. Please read the following carefully..

1) The reason you need a Driving License is because, if you win, you need one to claim the prize (driving the real VAG Trophy car) as it currently entails the winner driving the car on a track day. Most race circuits in the UK require that you have a Driving License for track days; that is the rule of the race circuit and isn't something that we or the sponsor have made up to exclude people. This also means that people from other countries with a full driving license are eligible as well, but of course you'd need to be able to get to the UK and we, or the sponsor, can't pay for that. It might be possible to take the prize out of a track day and onto private land, eg an airfield, in which case you won't need a driving license. You will need to be able to drive a car though, the sponsor may not be happy letting, say, a 14-y.o. reign of their expensive race vehicle.

2) We aren't giving people with a driving license more "privileges" or anything like that. You just need one to claim the prize, at the end of the day. Just like any other competition, there are T&Cs to abide by, and that is currently one of them.

3) We will need to talk to the sponsor about hand-downs of the prize if that's what people want. There may be other people who might be rather annoyed if Best Buddy A wins and gives the prize to Best Buddy B, or we end up with people harassing etc the winner for the prize. The prize also cannot be traded for anything of monatary value, eg sold for cash or items, as that is unfair on the sponsor and other competitors.

4) There will be a North American VAG Trophy series that is being set up, so if you want you can still race the same series but without the Driving License issue. Obviously it will be later in the day/evening to suit the US timezones.

5) In regards to proof of license, unless we ask all competitors to send us a copy of their license, we'll just have to take your word for it. Obviously you'll look a bit stupid if you win and you don't have a license though.

6) Because of point 5, it does appear that the License issue only effects a select few at the end of the day; those who are at the very top of the standings. If you're a little slower than the fastest drivers then it doesn't make any difference to you, and I understand the rule may be unfair to you.

7) I should make it clear that currently the prize is being given out to the winner of Class A. Because of that, it seems clear that the rule of "Class A for License holders only" rule makes more sense. There will be a prize for the winner of Class B but that is being arranged; it won't require a driving license though.

8 ) This is not a replacement for TCC. It's just a similar formula in the same timeslot.

Over the next few days I will be taking into consideration the issue and discussing with staff etc. As I said, we want to be able to make as many people happy as possible while still being fair.

In terms of allowing people to race, there are these options:

A) All entrants must have a Driving License (UK or not).
B) Class A for License holders (Prize of Track Day), Class B for those without (Another prize).
C) Reverse of B).
D) Four classes: Class A with license; Class A without; Class B with license; Class B without.
E) Anyone can enter; the highest-scoring driver with a License claims the prize.
F) Anyone can enter; the top-scoring driver gives away the prize if they don't have a license (if this is acceptable by the sponsor)

Please discuss and try to avoid arguments. If it comes down to it, there may be a community vote on those above options.

This is a tricky situation and it's not something that's really been done before by us. We're trying to be fair for everyone involved and we don't want people causing a ruckus halfway through the series because of this-and-that.

Stan just a question about the first point you made .
In the unlikely event I was to win in class A with a full irish driving license as long as I can make it to England I'm eligible .

Is that correct ?

by Standaman94 Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 17:15

by xebot360 Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 17:16

CQR MAGiC wrote:I'm looking to enter the series and Stan asked for the opinions of drivers who are eligible, if you don't agree with my opinion I really don't care, it's up to Stan and the staff to make the rules.

I'm just saying my opinion to mate. I'm just frustrated that this has happened as I was looking forward to racing in A class cars and being told no as you cant drive. Yes I know that's due to sponsorship reasons but there should be an alternate series or championship for people who are illegible or include them in this one

by Standaman94 Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 17:16

xebot360 wrote:
CQR MAGiC wrote:I'm looking to enter the series and Stan asked for the opinions of drivers who are eligible, if you don't agree with my opinion I really don't care, it's up to Stan and the staff to make the rules.

I'm just saying my opinion to mate. I'm just frustrated that this has happened as I was looking forward to racing in A class cars and being told no as you cant drive. Yes I know that's due to sponsorship reasons but there should be an alternate series or championship for people who are illegible or include them in this one

I have said on multiple occasions that there is an alternate championship that is being set up.

by SECR Marko1100 Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 17:18

Standaman94 wrote:Yes

Thank you

by **SVR Solar** Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 17:20

Standaman94 wrote:
xebot360 wrote:
CQR MAGiC wrote:I'm looking to enter the series and Stan asked for the opinions of drivers who are eligible, if you don't agree with my opinion I really don't care, it's up to Stan and the staff to make the rules.

I'm just saying my opinion to mate. I'm just frustrated that this has happened as I was looking forward to racing in A class cars and being told no as you cant drive. Yes I know that's due to sponsorship reasons but there should be an alternate series or championship for people who are illegible or include them in this one
I have said on multiple occasions that there is an alternate championship that is being set up.

but that is the US Series if i remember correctly? where the time slot will more then likely be 2am GMT :/ not to try and start another arguement. or do you mean as in a different table for the Ineligible people for the Test Day Prize? within the UK Time Zone Still

by Standaman94 Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 17:25

Solar Flar3 wrote:but that is the US Series if i remember correctly? where the time slot will more then likely be 2am GMT :/ not to try and start another arguement. or do you mean as in a different table for the Ineligible people for the Test Day Prize? within the UK Time Zone Still

It is the US one.

The option of having Class A for those eligible and Class B for those not will be essentially two different championships anyway. Both are on track simultaneously ala ISCC rules.

I will open a vote later today or tomorrow with those options from my earlier post. Whatever comes out of that will be the decider, can't get much fairer than that I suppose.

by **SVR Solar** Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 17:27

i just hope you get the amount of participants you were hoping for dude, ill put my vote in for whatever i feel is most fairer and best for the Series.

by HCR Skodaboie Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 17:43

Solar Flar3 wrote:
IBlueIJaBBRexI wrote:Quick question and its a no brainier how will you know they have a liscence to be eligible to run for a prize?

you make a fair point, someone could jump in win it and not having a driving license and give it to there Parent or Friend or what not haha

Take a photo of your full licence or even PM the licence number to the series organisers?

by **SVR Solar** Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 17:44

Skodaboie wrote:
Solar Flar3 wrote:
IBlueIJaBBRexI wrote:Quick question and its a no brainier how will you know they have a liscence to be eligible to run for a prize?

you make a fair point, someone could jump in win it and not having a driving license and give it to there Parent or Friend or what not haha

Take a photo of your full licence or even PM the licence number to the series organisers?

we already discussed this sorry Gordon you are 2 late Very Happy

by **SFM Benedict** Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 17:47

F or b i think

by **AdamWatson99** Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 17:50

I agree in what Flyin Mikey J said, some times more cases than not the people without the licence race better than the people who do. Not everyone hasn't caused a crash or done something stupid, Magic I doubt your God's gift that is never in trouble and never has caused a crash because that is impossible that no one has had a crash or caused a crash. it doesn't matter whether you have a licence or not. a crash is a crash in online racing so both Parties should be allowed to race. As it is unfair on the people who want to enter the series who don't have a licence , knowing they are not going to win but enter to have fun, and you want to not let that happen

by HCR Skodaboie Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 17:54

Solar Flar3 wrote:
Skodaboie wrote:
Solar Flar3 wrote:
IBlueIJaBBRexI wrote:Quick question and its a no brainier how will you know they have a liscence to be eligible to run for a prize?

you make a fair point, someone could jump in win it and not having a driving license and give it to there Parent or Friend or what not haha

Take a photo of your full licence or even PM the licence number to the series organisers?

we already discussed this sorry Gordon you are 2 late

Some of us were racing on FM5 and missed out. Tbh I'm all for option A for the sponsorship reason and terms and conditions. But thats just me.

by Standaman94 Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 18:13

AdamWatson99 wrote:I agree in what Flyin Mikey J said, some times more cases than not the people without the licence race better than the people who do. Not everyone hasn't caused a crash or done something stupid, Magic I doubt your God's gift that is never in trouble and never has caused a crash because that is impossible that no one has had a crash or caused a crash. it doesn't matter whether you have a licence or not. a crash is a crash in online racing so both Parties should be allowed to race. As it is unfair on the people who want to enter the series who don't have a licence , knowing they are not going to win but enter to have fun, and you want to not let that happen

Again, the license issue is nothing to do with skill, but rather the clashing points in the standings.

by **AdamWatson99** Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 18:25

Just have either 2 classes or give it to the first person eligible to drive

by CQR MAGiC Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 18:32

AdamWatson99 wrote:I agree in what Flyin Mikey J said, some times more cases than not the people without the licence race better than the people who do. Not everyone hasn't caused a crash or done something stupid, Magic I doubt your God's gift that is never in trouble and never has caused a crash because that is impossible that no one has had a crash or caused a crash. it doesn't matter whether you have a licence or not. a crash is a crash in online racing so both Parties should be allowed to race. As it is unfair on the people who want to enter the series who don't have a licence , knowing they are not going to win but enter to have fun,and you want to not let that happen

What on earth are you going on about, please read Stans post (again) - the licence requirement is NOTHING to do with a drivers skill, capability or ability, it's to comply with the requirements of the sponsor who's funding the prize for the series. MSA TORA Maximum Group VAG Trophy - General Discussion - Page 4 BangHeadAgainstbrickWall

MSA TORA Maximum Group VAG Trophy - General Discussion - Page 4 BangHeadAgainstbrickWall

by xebot360 Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 18:39

CQR MAGiC wrote:
AdamWatson99 wrote:I agree in what Flyin Mikey J said, some times more cases than not the people without the licence race better than the people who do. Not everyone hasn't caused a crash or done something stupid, Magic I doubt your God's gift that is never in trouble and never has caused a crash because that is impossible that no one has had a crash or caused a crash. it doesn't matter whether you have a licence or not. a crash is a crash in online racing so both Parties should be allowed to race. As it is unfair on the people who want to enter the series who don't have a licence , knowing they are not going to win but enter to have fun,and you want to not let that happen

What on earth are you going on about, please read Stans post (again) - the licence requirement is NOTHING to do with a drivers skill, capability or ability, it's to comply with the requirements of the sponsor who's funding the prize for the series.

The thing is though, as far as I'm aware there is no UK replacement for it but a US one. If this is only for guys with drivers license then its a bit unfair opening it up to the American time zone when there is no real replacement for a UK series. Yes let them have it but why is there no alternative to this for the UK side of things ?

by **AdamWatson99** Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 19:12

Magic as you will see my comment is above stans and I didn't see the other one

by CQR MAGiC Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 19:19

Stans post was on page 3, so may I suggest you read a thread properly before laying into someone next time huh?

by **SVR Solar** Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 19:27

i really wanna say something but will only get my head bitten off, so lets just leave this 2 the UK Driver Licensed people aye, obviously this series is just for them Smile

. i had my say got me no where cba now

by connor7195 Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 19:35

Standaman94 wrote:
xebot360 wrote:
CQR MAGiC wrote:I'm looking to enter the series and Stan asked for the opinions of drivers who are eligible, if you don't agree with my opinion I really don't care, it's up to Stan and the staff to make the rules.

I'm just saying my opinion to mate. I'm just frustrated that this has happened as I was looking forward to racing in A class cars and being told no as you cant drive. Yes I know that's due to sponsorship reasons but there should be an alternate series or championship for people who are illegible or include them in this one
I have said on multiple occasions that there is an alternate championship that is being set up.

So if I want to race a class A car but can't because I don't have a license, you expect me to stay up til 2am GMT so I can. No chance.

by Standaman94 Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 19:42

Can we please keep this discussion civil, otherwise the thread is only going to end up getting locked if it ends up in off-topic arguments or snide comments.

I will set up a poll tomorrow and we'll decide there and then what will be done.

If you have thoughts or ideas please do post them but make sure you've read the other comments in this thread first so you know where we currently stand in this discussion... I am keen to know what people think and I'd like to hear constructive criticism please.

It's a tricky situation but there is still plenty of time to change rules etc.

by **SVR Solar** Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 19:47

well from what i know Stan only A Class is gonna be getting the Test Day Prize correct? if so then whats the harm in us none Eligible People so 2 speak not do the B Class that way u get more participants, but then you have the arguament of people wanting to A Class, me myself have Put myself out there to tune and help people with the B Class Cars, if thats not enough to help with the Series then idunno :/ lol

by skyshadow5 Sat 21 Feb 2015 - 20:24

OK so I'll add my tuppence worth. Let everyone race, UK, US or wherever. At the end of the series, if 1st place isn't eligible, give it to second place. If second place isn't eligible give it to third place and so on.
This way everyone gets to race who wants to race and the first eligible person in the standings gets the prize. So what if there are non-eligible players racing alongside eligible players and potentially altering the results; that's competition for you.

~sky~

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