Le Castellet event discussion

by **Radiation Louis** Sat 10 Apr 2010 - 5:03

so after one day of practice and 2 sessions down, it seems Audi and Peugeot have the top time in 1 session each. Tomorrow there's practice 3 and qualifying, thoughts on who's going to get pole with Audi being the only team to get into sub 1:43 times in practice thus far.

by HCR generaltso Sat 10 Apr 2010 - 5:13

MATMUTTTTTTTTTT

by nickyf1 Sat 10 Apr 2010 - 12:14

A classic season of sportscar racing ahead of us. Peugeot and Audi not racing together in the first part of the year will make Spa so much more special Smile

We really are in for a classic final two seasons to sign off the current LMP1 for good. We will miss these cars sheer power and pace and their amazing ability to capture the imagination and inspire! For those who say motorsport isn't as good as it used to be... Where have you been?!

by Crisis Nine Sat 10 Apr 2010 - 17:50

Forgive my ignorance but why only two seasons left for the P1's?

by **Radiation Louis** Sat 10 Apr 2010 - 18:17

actually it's 1 more season because what is LMP2 now is going to become LMP1, and LMP2 are going be cars that have a stock block engine.... so basically the Formula LeMans cars now are kind of like a look to what LMP2 will be.

by HCR generaltso Sat 10 Apr 2010 - 19:13

There are posters to sports car forums who keep repeating statements like, "the 2011 rules have not yet been announced" or "all LMPs become obsolete next year"

Neither is true - the rules have been known since late 2008. What become obsolete are LMP1 engines - not LMP cars. The ACO has consistently said that current LMP cars will be eligible for the new LMP1 and LMP2 - there are no "new rules" to be announced because nothing much changes...

Of course there will be new cars (from Audi & Peugeot & maybe Aston Martin) and new engines, but existing LMP1 and LMP2 cars can carry on, as LMP1, using existing LMP2 engines. They could alternatively convert to the new LMP2 by fitting production engines as detailed below.

In detail; from the first race of 2011 (Sebring?) LMP1 cars will have the choice of the following power (limited to 520 BHP):-

* 3.4 ltr atmo petrol racing engine with 8 cylinders max
* 2.0 ltr turbo racing engine with 6 cylinders max
* 3.7 ltr turbo diesel engine with 8 cylinders max

And LMP2 will have the following choice (limited to 420 BHP):-

* 4.0 ltr production based petrol engine homologated to 2010 LM GT2
* 4.5 ltr production based petrol engine
* 4.0 ltr production diesel engine with induction as per the original

Both classes will be built to the same dimensions, strength requirements and aerodynamics, will weigh 900 kgs and have 75 lts of fuel, diesels will have 65 ltrs.

Tires are unchanged @ 16 in wide & 28.5 in diameter for P1 & 14 in wide & 28 in diameter for P2

There are aerodynamic changes, some of which applied for 2010 and were "waived" for most cars. There may be other aerodynamic changes, such as the requirement a ventral fin.

So there are four distinct groups of entrants with different strategies for 2011:-

1) The manufacturers (Peugeot, Audi, Aston Martin, Porsche(?)) - create new LMP1 chassis and engines

2) The other LMP1 regulars - fit downsized versions of their existing Judd or Zytek engines (or new engines such as HPD)

3) LMP2 teams - do nothing and "become" LMP1 teams

4) "New" LMP2 - fit GT2 engines (Porsche, Ferrari, BMW, Aston Martin, Spyker) to existing or new LMP chassis (note: there is no such thing as "an LMP2 chassis" all chassis are the same - LMP)

Where does FLM / LMPC fit into this plan? It doesn't really; the chassis is compliant, the aerodynamics less so but the engine ( 6.2lt production) is nowhere close. That's not to say they won't be "accommodated" though - that engine delivers 430HP, close to the LMP2 target. Perhaps there will be a 6lt production pushrod engine allowed...

Our Opinion

So, the only new class is LMP2. What can we expect from this?

Initially one would think "not very much ", why would anyone go to the trouble of a new engine installation, probably with little, if any, help from the manufacturer?

Much as the idea of a Lola-Ferrari or a Pescarolo-Porsche might appeal would it not be easier & cheaper to go the Judd/Zytek/HPD route and run in LMP1?

I recently mentioned to an established LMP2 team owner that he was now ready to go LMP1 in 2010. His reply surprised me when he said he didn't really want to do LMP1 and was looking at the options for LMP2 in 2011...

Thinking about this later I assume his, and other teams', motivation is the sheer numbers that will be in LMP1. This will make podiums and Le Mans invites very hard to come by. LMP2 on the other hand will have few entrants at first, success will come fairly easily and a Le Mans spot just about guaranteed - and the ACO will have been made happy!

Back to the LMP2 options; there is no doubt that a "Lola-Ferrari" would generate a lot of publicity and would interest the rich GT2 F430 teams who will be changing cars anyway. The question (pick this up forums...) is whether Ferrari would be supportive - if they were, the cars would gather the cache of collectability, if not the projects probably just won't happen.

The option of Porsche 997 powered off-the shelf prototypes is coloured with similar political issues so - interesting times in LMP2...

One other issue to think about - all those Porsche RS Spyders will now become eligible for LMP1, OK so all but one are in museums, it's probably in VAG's interest to keep them there ;-(

Oh, and one more thing. This has little effect on the ALMS. Only 2 cars are affected (Intersport and AutoCon with their AER 4.0 turbos) and even they will presumably be allowed to run outside of Sebring and PLM. They may of course downsize their engines. The combined LPM class will presumably allow new GT2 engined LPM2s in.

In both LMS and ALMS there is also the issue of LPMC/FLM to consider. Whilst not true "New LMP2s" they are, with 430 BHP, very close - indeed a bit more powerful - if LMP2 grids are sparse expect the FLMs to be combined, and even get invites to Le Mans in 2011.

Hybrids

The hybrid power rules are very muddled & don't seem to allow the current Peugeot or Zytek systems...

Quoted in full (official translation)

"The ACO wants to give manufacturers the greatest possible freedom to develop and use such systems while taking certain measures to control them.
Energy recovery systems will be free, provided they respect the following rules:
- Recovery of energy from the brakes on the 4 wheels or from the heat of the exhaust.
- Only the rear wheels can be used to drive the vehicle.
- Electric systems are allowed only to recover energy from the brakes.
- Energy can only be stocked in the form of electricity.
- The car’s minimum weight will be identical to that of the other LM P1s using conventional engine technology (petrol or diesel): 900 kgs.
- The internal combustion engine and the electric motor must be controlled by the driver using the accelerator pedal (push to pass buttons forbidden).
- The quantity of usable energy stocked on board the vehicle must not exceed 1 MJ.
- Installation of systems enabling the power to be controlled at the entry and exit of engines/generators and the energy dissipated on a lap of the circuit at the exit of the motor/generator.
- The ACO will impose its own safety regulations.

The use of such a system must not be aimed at obtaining additional power but at reducing fuel consumption and CO2 emissions.
The ACO reserves itself the right to adjust the performance of any car using such a system, should it enable the vehicle to improve its lap times in a significant manner.
Competitors who wish to develop and use such a system must inform the ACO beforehand giving the club all relevant information as to how it works, its use, the performance expected, the safety systems installed etc.
The ACO must be kept informed throughout the development of the system and the car. The club reserves itself the right to demand additional information and carry out any checks it deems necessary."

by HCR generaltso Sat 10 Apr 2010 - 19:17

Oreca-Pug goes fastest in qualifying.

love, love, love that paint.

by **Radiation Louis** Sat 10 Apr 2010 - 22:34

I think we have a race here gent's once again it'll be Peugeot vs. Audi and right now as much of an Audi fanatic as I am, I don't care who win's at this point as ong as there's a good show.... even if it is between 2 cars. as for Petrol P1 the Lola Aston Martin of AMR takes the top spot in qualy, but not to far behind are the Dunlop shod Oreca, the two Rebellion Lola's the customer Lola Aston, and the very impressive Mansel Ginetta Zytek.

In P2 what a way to introduce a new chasis by HPD with the Strakka team taking pole in that category by a little over a full 2 seconds over the Quifel Ginetta Zytek. The new HPD chassis is only 7 one-hundreths of a second behind the slowest LMP1 car, his thing is going to be knocking down some P1 walls durring the race. Thew biggest shock would have to be the Oak racing Pescarolo-Judd in 3rd

In FLM Dams takes the top spot with the Hope Polevision car just 1 tenth of a second beind, looks like a close race in this category as well

In GT1 is the biggest surprise Larbre Competition is on pole and is the fastest in this category once again in their Saleen. (they are the only car in GT1 this weekend)

In GT2 the Risi.... sorry AF Corse Ferrari takes pole over the first Felbrmayr Porsche. CRS Racing and another AF Corse of Alesi/ Fisichella (SHOCK!) Ferrari's take the next 2 spots with the shock on the grid. The biggest surprise for me is the car sitting right in 5th and its awsome to finally see this car doing well it's the JMW ASTON MARTIN!!!!!!! An incredible job by Bob Bell to get that machine up there and running well hopefully we can see that machine knocking on the bumpers of the leading Ferrari's and Porsche.