General Discussion

quali is not the issue ere i dont think ,i dont want to race silverstone international its to easy to be overtaken ,loooks like i,ll be watching top gear that night lol

cant we do another track

VVV worm wrote:Team VVV withdrawn from MSA GT Championship

Sad to see you go mate..

Think we need to look at the rules on this. As I'm back to square one on testing. Being away with work this week meant I'd put the effort in last week with regards to testing. Now it's worthless.

You can back off all you want but one incident, which is going to happen when pushing your car, will cause you to get a penalty. When its encouraged to get a penalty on your lap during qualifying because of this how is it conducive to good overall racing? Purposely getting a penalty causes you time when your not cutting, when the goal is to gain it.

My main point is I was told we don't like to change rules midseason when we were practicing on Sedona and I brought up qualifying. Now an entire track has been changed. Also to one that benefits HP cars

If I remember rightly, you were asking to change to no collisions. That's quite a fundamental change you're asking for which would require more discussion than the few minutes before qualifying.

I understand the argument that people have their qualifying laps hampered by slower drivers, or dirtied by slipstreaming the car in front, however the reason we run qualifying with collisions on is because you then have to manage your gap or traffic, as in real life. Personally I hate driving with collisions off. Driving through someone is a/ unrealistic and b/ really off-putting! On the other hand, having to run a clean lap for qualy would be good (clean slow laps go ahead of fast dirty ones). So I guess this needs discussing. Either way something will have to be compromised.

I personally didn't want the circuit changed either, but I think withdrawing from the series in protest is your choice, but in my opinion a little immature.

Worm when quaily is concerned while you wait in the lobby before quaily ask the rest of the field if you can go in front then will stop the catching of traffic, also now quaily will be order to what place you are in the championship so for you will be in B lobby for quialy.

Give the next race ago and see how it goes

Well that's 3 immature people withdrawing. I wonder what other childish things we can take part in?

I'm not trying to insult you, it's just unrealistic to expect a change like that without discussion. The change of circuit was made after discussion. The change of qualifying may happen, after discussion. By withdrawing, all you're doing is missing out on the racing, and it's not just you. The other people who have said they wouldn't race on particular circuits, or in cars without having changes made to restrictors or PIs or this or that. It's getting quite tiresome. What are you trying to achieve by withdrawing? It's not like we don't listen to reason and make changes where necessary, but you can't always expect decisions to go in your favour.

Chucky 1982 wrote:Worm when quaily is concerned while you wait in the lobby before quaily ask the rest of the field if you can go in front then will stop the catching of traffic, also now quaily will be order to what place you are in the championship so for you will be in B lobby for quialy.

Give the next race ago and see how it goes

That is a brilliant idea.

I brought up qualifying forever ago, lets not act like this is a new request

Here's my take on the whole qualifying issue.

I suppose it's the perspective from which one looks. If qualifying is to be part of the "experience," then I can see why collisions are on. If it is simply a means to an end--such as it is in the StockHatch series, then I see no reason for them to be on.

We aren't withdrawing because of qualifying. When qualifying was brought up Chris told me while practicing at Sedona Club that you don't try to change rules mid season. Then you change venues and to one that doesn't even share the same characteristics as Iberian. We were presented with a select few cars and based our decision on our car for the tracks given. Decision to withdraw stands.

I am sorry to hear that it still stands but do understand where you are coming from with this also and I for one would like to apologize for this but it is out my hands also

To be fair, I petitioned to NOT change the circuit.

Qualifying takes the format it has for 3 years so far in TORA history, and as Neo suggested, the part of the reason collisions are on is the "experience". We try to run things as near to a real life series as possible, and therefore the ability to drive through another competitor feels out of place. That doesn't mean it's not open to discussion.

My thoughts

Being honest worm all i think the TORA staff are trying to do is listen to what the racer's want.After a lot of people commenting on Iberian and how it doesnt work with the GT cars.This feed back the staff took on board and altered the track selection.Maybe not what the Staff thought was right.

Its not just you that picked there cars for the track list at the beginning of the season.Everyone is really on the same boat.I think we need to use different tracks more often get outside the norm.

The quail think i agree with you but after some rather large crashes{not all my fault} before i have learned to deal with the rules set.I know how annoying it is getting a fast lap ruined by some one else or get your concentration knocked with cars in a higher class lapping you.

It would be a pity to lose a front running team at this point.I would suggest thinking about it and maybe contact Chris or/and Duncan try work it out.

At the end of the day, if we change, we annoy one person, if we don't we annoy another. Now how are we supposed to choose who to annoy?

I'm unsure about why the change in track. Isn't the track simply another part of the "art" of racing? One more opponent to overcome?

Not sure why changing the track for a set of cars is warranted. Unless that was a faux pas by the organizing body for not adequately testing the car/track combination for "reasonableness." Even then I don't see the reason for the change.

I get the whole idea of what the "community" wants. But then one has to deal with which segment of the "community" gets upset. Make the decision and stick with it.

How will we ever know if the race would have been epic--good or bad? I suppose we will never know.

Worm, please don't withdraw! Love racing with you VVV guys!

why was,nt the objections brought up before this whole event started,surely there was time,to be honest i would of liked to be involved in the discussion to change track,also i would be interested in see how many people objected to the track.ps if you want the whole racing exieriance to be as real as possable why have braking line aloud traction aloud surely this should be forced off.

ps sorry about my spelling ,i know it is really bad.

line and tc are allowed for the racers who use them can race with us and up the numbers. plus theres a good lot of staff members who choose the rules/tracks and would cover everything

Chris wrote:Now how are we supposed to choose who to annoy?

TORA has plenty of experience of who to annoy and who to please. Just sayin'

The Calendar has never been changed in the past for these reasons, only New York has been exchanged, and the Nurbrurgring was added to some calendars when it was released.

[quote='vvvbobcat'']if you want the whole racing exieriance to be as real as possable why have braking line aloud traction aloud surely this should be forced off.[/quote]

This is something I bring up alot, and every time I get shot down immediately.

Hey all, I am generally sorry this has upset some of you, I never wished to upset any 1 over track choices I as a staff member have tried to be more understanding than our previous series owners.

However I had a number of members approach me and raise issues about Iberium Reverse, as you can see in previous posts I asked about an alternative track, and I did advise in posts previously about making a decision on the track situation. Yes the iberium reverse was tested in pre season testing but we had some 1 previously in charge who did not listen to any 1 and did their own thing and quite frankly didnt care about any 1 here.

We cant please every 1 im afraid all the time, I wish we could. So not every 1 will agree with my decision which is fair enough and I hold no grudges against any 1.

Look for season 2 of the GT's later this year I want it to be your decision for the season calender, what I wish to happen is we hold a poll vote for a x number of grip circuits, x number of power and use the tracks voted the highest % from both types of tracks as our season calender however if you have ideas for having an alternative calender suggestions please let me know.

Also if any 1 wishes to get involved with creating a new direction for TORA GT's please contact me as we are open to new ideas.

Regarding the racing line yes I would love to turn off TCS, Braking Line and ABS but we cant Nicky why.....well what about a driver who has just started out and is interested with racing with us but finds that the restrictions we place on them are not very fair and he or she is put off, we want to have a more open attitued and thats what we are trying to do, I know most of you do not use assists they are options available to those who wish to use them.

Guys please let me know if you have any issues, I hope your all well.

A 2 tier championship pro series and a junior series. Run the same night same track the pro series no assists or lines and the junior series to how it is now. We should do that the the second GT series.

It may make the grid abit smaller but it will be for better action and the junior field may enjoy it more with the big boys out the way they may get a better chance of the win.

Took me that long to type this.. Most of this has been said.. It's the balance between realism and accessibility. If you want a good amount of interest and new member sign up you have to be accessible. Make it elite and you will have 7 driver championships. It's how you get the novice up to a pro level without entirely hacking off the old pro's.  But that's a different subject to the current issue.
Qualifying - why not grid is up by trueskill or even PI for the LMS. Get the quick ones off on a clean track. A big issue is people not saying where they are when passing in qualy. We aren't racing for actual track position, just the quickest clean lap.
Track selection - TORA staff have picked the tracks based on knowledge and experience. If we are to open this up to the community we should do this before the championship starts, maybe a voting system top voted tracks are in? But this should be specified in the series rules.
End of the day the tracks should be enjoyable for the majority.

Our track selection intentionally included some of the Turn 10 layouts in order to expand people's experience. I couldn't believe some people had had FM3 since launch and NEVER raced at Sedona! tbh I'm a little tired/bored of Silverstone Silverstone Silverstone and Laguna Laguna Laguna all the time (for example) and completely ignoring some circuits that are perfectly viable and in most cases great fun. So I get a little annoyed when the "old hands" want to immediately shoot down the suggestion of racing at a circuit that's a bit different because they want to race at a circuit they've hotlapped to death instead.