MSA TORA ISCC America Round 2 Sunset Peninsula Reverse- Sunday August the 12th 2012

wish i could've race :s but i guess that's the problem with huge timezone splits

F4H Bullet wrote:"You're an F4H driver, you should have all the skill, speed, and grip you need to cut through the traffic when it's safe, not just try to slice through at whim." Just quoting Hellfire here, but please don't use the fact having F4H in front of our names makes us the perfect racers. We are human, just like everyone else and people make mistakes. I've honestly felt by having these 3 letters as a representation of our club in front our names has put a target on us. Only a few of us raced here before and we really had no problems, but we showed up with more members and things began to take a bit of turn as we saw ourselves involved in more incidents that where not of our own doing. The one thing that still gets me is how the SI against Magictap and Louis from Motegi just dissapeared without no explination from the Motegi round of TORA GT season 8, while the SI against IanMR and MOPAR001 where delt with. TORA has attraced some great talented teams as of late in CQR, many more members. Im just saddened to see my guys so frustrated they don't want to compete here anymore cause they feel they are always going to get hit, so don't see the point in practicing for weeks just to get taken out. For the 24 Hour race at Le Mans we had about 16 members wanting to race, now for the Britcar so we only have about 4 wanting to compete. Im not mad, or trying to be a [Censored], just backing up my teammate as the frustration finally got to him, and Insanity has been holding this back for a while. I'll continue to compete here, hoping to make a return to ISCC and Tora GT as soon as my work scheadule lightens up.

Thank You and looking forward to getting back on track.

-F4H Bullet

its nice to see that someone on your team has a level head, but frustrated or no, every driver is responsible for his/her actions...i cant speak for what has happened before, but in this instance he is at fault...call your pass...no exceptions...if you dont, then you cant get mad when someone, unaware of your presence, takes the racing line, and contact gets made because of it...

Good day in D lobby, for me at least. I know I had no way of keeping with the Porsche of Shrinking Steven, as soon as he got to the exit of the last turn, it was like someone lit a rocket at the back of his car!
Surprised that I beat my Team-mate, in C lobby, by one mile. but hopefully the remaining tracks will be kinder to the BMW.

Have to say the passing by the P1 and P2 cars in my lobby was very considerate, no one tried to foce a move into a corner, I suspect that was a big factor in the lack of crashes in D (with the exeption of the pile up on lap 2!)

I think there's a little mistake towards the bottom of the P2 results.

Differences in mileage reporting (line vs parc ferme - 150/151 respectively, I gave Bli33ard both) mean that the four of us who completed 54 (Posixmosh, Dodgey mr D, Spiderzz and me) laps are in the wrong order.

Currently it's:
Kurz
Dodgey
Posi
Spiderzz

and from the times it should be
Posi
Kurz
Spiderzz
Dodgey

RR BodyRollin wrote:

F4H Bullet wrote:"You're an F4H driver, you should have all the skill, speed, and grip you need to cut through the traffic when it's safe, not just try to slice through at whim." Just quoting Hellfire here, but please don't use the fact having F4H in front of our names makes us the perfect racers. We are human, just like everyone else and people make mistakes. I've honestly felt by having these 3 letters as a representation of our club in front our names has put a target on us. Only a few of us raced here before and we really had no problems, but we showed up with more members and things began to take a bit of turn as we saw ourselves involved in more incidents that where not of our own doing. The one thing that still gets me is how the SI against Magictap and Louis from Motegi just dissapeared without no explination from the Motegi round of TORA GT season 8, while the SI against IanMR and MOPAR001 where delt with. TORA has attraced some great talented teams as of late in CQR, many more members. Im just saddened to see my guys so frustrated they don't want to compete here anymore cause they feel they are always going to get hit, so don't see the point in practicing for weeks just to get taken out. For the 24 Hour race at Le Mans we had about 16 members wanting to race, now for the Britcar so we only have about 4 wanting to compete. Im not mad, or trying to be a [Censored], just backing up my teammate as the frustration finally got to him, and Insanity has been holding this back for a while. I'll continue to compete here, hoping to make a return to ISCC and Tora GT as soon as my work scheadule lightens up.

Thank You and looking forward to getting back on track.

-F4H Bullet

its nice to see that someone on your team has a level head, but frustrated or no, every driver is responsible for his/her actions...i cant speak for what has happened before, but in this instance he is at fault...call your pass...no exceptions...if you dont, then you cant get mad when someone, unaware of your presence, takes the racing line, and contact gets made because of it...

F4H Insanity wrote:I got wrecked AGAIN!!! It has happened to me in every race except TASCAR and that is because I run away with each race right now. I am done with this happening week in and week out and I know I called out my move in some form but because everyone was talking it wasn't heard. I got taken out in the last GT race and nothing was done got wrecked the race before that and nothing was done so whats the point. i will run public hoppers before I come back here.

As you can see in the first post Insanity made he said he called it out but wasn't heard because other people were talking. In lobby B the communication was top notch because the only time people would talk was when they were about to pass somebody. Of course there was an occasional joke and it was a good time but I've been in other lobbies where people would tell their whole life story during the race... I mean come on... Go do that after the race. IF (not saying they were because I wasn't there) people where talking about stuff not related to the race while Insanity called out his move and wasn't heard, I really have to disagree on people saying it was his fault. My point is that people shouldn't talk about anything else during the race but the race itself because this kind of stuff might happen...

It could have been some sort of lag as well where he called it out but it didn't register or just nobody heard it. In Lobby B I didn't hear 33% of everything ATR Dan was saying but despite that we didn't touch each other a single time. Not everything is just about communicating, everybody needs to be aware of their surroundings as well. If Vettel is gonna pass Hamilton he isn't telling him that either, is he? The person in the GTC car should have noticed Insanity on his map way before he actually tried overtaking him. Therefore when he got closer he should look behind him every once in a while to check where he's at. Again, I'm not saying the person who collided with Insanity didn't do this but just making some points which I've noticed myself as well during some races.

Well this was my first race on here and i was worried about the lapping before we started but i managed to keep clean with no bumps!!! Yer ther was the odd time an LMP caught me by suprise appearing from nowhere but aslong as your aware a of whats around AND the LMP car makes a sensible pass this really shouldnt be an issue!! At one point i was minding my own business when 3lmp cars came down the straight 2x p1 and 1 p2, they all got by and still had no contact!! Hats off to Lobby B

Agree all lobby communication should be kept to the absolute minimum, drivers must be aware of spacial awareness and also do not endanger your fellow competitor with hastily thought out overtaking maneuvers.

Slower cars always stick to their lines, faster cars which are overtaking must be aware of the slower cars breaking corner entry were they will go and then make sure they have enough room to over take cleanly, if the faster cars are unable to do this then the drivers of these cars may be made to move down to a more suitable class.

All drivers must be able to overtake cleanly without making a sound, we all have the option in the game with a map and directional view to see who is around us. Overtaking a slower car dangerously and causing a huge crash will not be tolerated, like I have said above please post SI so the steward team can investigate, the stewards are there and are willing to investigate this group is a much as possible independent from staff.

I am sorry about last nights incidents and if any drivers want to contact me direct to discus then please do.

Thanks.

F4H Bullet wrote:SI against Magictap and Louis from Motegi just dissapeared without no explination from the Motegi round of TORA GT season 8, while the SI against IanMR and MOPAR001 where delt with.

I'm guessing it was never posted as you said nothing ever happened, but something did happen, i was under probation for 3 races. If this wasn't announced then we will make sure the stewards pick up the slack.

Results for LMP1 need to be looked at!! Places 2 till 9 have the same amount of laps but different amounts of miles and therefor they are not in the right order! For instance F4H Mikem is listed as 6th but he actually finished 2nd!

F4H Music Man wrote:Results for LMP1 need to be looked at!! Places 2 till 9 have the same amount of laps but different amounts of miles and therefor they are not in the right order! For instance F4H Mikem is listed as 6th but he actually finished 2nd!

The number of miles is not counted for the results as each lobby does not necessarily stop in exactly the same place, some may stop just over the mile marker putting them "a mile ahead". The mileage is divided by the length of one lap to give the number of laps and rounded to the nearest full lap (e.g. one person has 299 miles, and another 300 miles. 1 lap = 2.99 miles, so both really finished on 100 laps). Then the finish times are taken into account, so those on the same lap are sorted by who finished first, and then if there is still a "tie" the lobby order is used (i.e. if both do 100 laps, both finish dead on 1h 15 but one was in lobby A and the other in lobby B, the one in lobby A takes the higher finish position).

CQR Aero wrote:The number of miles is not counted for the results as each lobby does not necessarily stop in exactly the same place, some may stop just over the mile marker putting them "a mile ahead". The mileage is divided by the length of one lap to give the number of laps and rounded to the nearest full lap (e.g. one person has 299 miles, and another 300 miles. 1 lap = 2.99 miles, so both really finished on 100 laps). Then the finish times are taken into account, so those on the same lap are sorted by who finished first, and then if there is still a "tie" the lobby order is used (i.e. if both do 100 laps, both finish dead on 1h 15 but one was in lobby A and the other in lobby B, the one in lobby A takes the higher finish position).

That's certainly what's supposed to happen, but the list on live timing at the moment seems to be sorting by Miles > Time, rather than Laps > Time. There's a similar situation in P2 with the people on 54-laps - I'm currently showing ahead of where I should be due to mileage differences.

OK, well, Live Timing is only a temporary doc anyway as it's overwritten with the next race within days. The ISCC Standings table is correct.

Also, a quick reminder that the positions are provisional pending receipt of the start time from Lobby A.

F4H Music Man wrote:

RR BodyRollin wrote:

F4H Bullet wrote:"You're an F4H driver, you should have all the skill, speed, and grip you need to cut through the traffic when it's safe, not just try to slice through at whim." Just quoting Hellfire here, but please don't use the fact having F4H in front of our names makes us the perfect racers. We are human, just like everyone else and people make mistakes. I've honestly felt by having these 3 letters as a representation of our club in front our names has put a target on us. Only a few of us raced here before and we really had no problems, but we showed up with more members and things began to take a bit of turn as we saw ourselves involved in more incidents that where not of our own doing. The one thing that still gets me is how the SI against Magictap and Louis from Motegi just dissapeared without no explination from the Motegi round of TORA GT season 8, while the SI against IanMR and MOPAR001 where delt with. TORA has attraced some great talented teams as of late in CQR, many more members. Im just saddened to see my guys so frustrated they don't want to compete here anymore cause they feel they are always going to get hit, so don't see the point in practicing for weeks just to get taken out. For the 24 Hour race at Le Mans we had about 16 members wanting to race, now for the Britcar so we only have about 4 wanting to compete. Im not mad, or trying to be a [Censored], just backing up my teammate as the frustration finally got to him, and Insanity has been holding this back for a while. I'll continue to compete here, hoping to make a return to ISCC and Tora GT as soon as my work scheadule lightens up.

Thank You and looking forward to getting back on track.

-F4H Bullet

its nice to see that someone on your team has a level head, but frustrated or no, every driver is responsible for his/her actions...i cant speak for what has happened before, but in this instance he is at fault...call your pass...no exceptions...if you dont, then you cant get mad when someone, unaware of your presence, takes the racing line, and contact gets made because of it...

F4H Insanity wrote:I got wrecked AGAIN!!! It has happened to me in every race except TASCAR and that is because I run away with each race right now. I am done with this happening week in and week out and I know I called out my move in some form but because everyone was talking it wasn't heard. I got taken out in the last GT race and nothing was done got wrecked the race before that and nothing was done so whats the point. i will run public hoppers before I come back here.

As you can see in the first post Insanity made he said he called it out but wasn't heard because other people were talking. In lobby B the communication was top notch because the only time people would talk was when they were about to pass somebody. Of course there was an occasional joke and it was a good time but I've been in other lobbies where people would tell their whole life story during the race... I mean come on... Go do that after the race. IF (not saying they were because I wasn't there) people where talking about stuff not related to the race while Insanity called out his move and wasn't heard, I really have to disagree on people saying it was his fault. My point is that people shouldn't talk about anything else during the race but the race itself because this kind of stuff might happen...

It could have been some sort of lag as well where he called it out but it didn't register or just nobody heard it. In Lobby B I didn't hear 33% of everything ATR Dan was saying but despite that we didn't touch each other a single time. Not everything is just about communicating, everybody needs to be aware of their surroundings as well. If Vettel is gonna pass Hamilton he isn't telling him that either, is he? The person in the GTC car should have noticed Insanity on his map way before he actually tried overtaking him. Therefore when he got closer he should look behind him every once in a while to check where he's at. Again, I'm not saying the person who collided with Insanity didn't do this but just making some points which I've noticed myself as well during some races.

"As for the communications issue, I see it more of an issue of people needing pay attention of what is going on around them on the track and to re-read the rules where it says that the GT cars NEED to hold their line when being passed by the LMP cars" (taken from the duke of bruno from the suggestion box thread)

so as per the rules the car at fault would be the passing car trying to take the cornering line from the slower car...it is the responsibility of the faster carto take the off line if they feel it necessary to pass in a corner, as opposed to just waiting a second for the straight stretch...just as it is the responsibility of the slower driver to hold his/her line so that the faster car can make a predictable pass (all be it on the off line) if insanity was trying a pass on the outside, and someone swerved to hit him, hed have a legit gripe...but by the letter of the rules, he is at fault, thereby making his frustration (no matter how understandable given the multiple incident circumstances) misdirected...his only frustration should lie with himself...and no one else...

To be specific:

MSA TORA ISCC Season 4 - Rules and Regulations wrote:...

Race Etiquette
-Slower cars (Those who are going down a lap to any car in any class) are to hold their racing line. Do NOT move over for the faster cars as you may be moving over into their path. Faster cars are to find their way around the slower cars. Failure to adhere to these rules will result in the following penalties.

1st offense- Warning
2nd offense- One lap penalty that will be taken from drivers finishing distance.
3rd offense- Exclusion from the race.

...

As per the MSA TORA Season 4 - Rules and Regulations.

He called out and completed the pass before the incident, why would you argue with somebody if you don't even read what they say?

F4H FACEPALMER wrote:He called out and completed the pass before the incident, why would you argue with somebody if you don't even read what they say?

Hang on you just said he called out and completed the pass. If this is so how was he taken out? A completed pass is when you are completely clear of the car, so if he was taken out after a completed pass this sounds like lag. If it wasnt lag and he completed the pass again how was he taken out?

F4H Music Man wrote:

As you can see in the first post Insanity made he said he called it out but wasn't heard because other people were talking. In lobby B the communication was top notch because the only time people would talk was when they were about to pass somebody. Of course there was an occasional joke and it was a good time but I've been in other lobbies where people would tell their whole life story during the race... I mean come on... Go do that after the race. IF (not saying they were because I wasn't there) people where talking about stuff not related to the race while Insanity called out his move and wasn't heard, I really have to disagree on people saying it was his fault. My point is that people shouldn't talk about anything else during the race but the race itself because this kind of stuff might happen...

exactly, i'd say 90% of my passing on GT cars, I didnt say a single thing. I'd just drive past them when it was clear. there were a few times it got a little dicey, but i kept my car 100% damage free with minimal communication.

we did do a good job with that. everyone was spot on too with sticking to their line and announcing entering/leaving the pits...stuff like that.

very responsible racing in lobby b. it was super exciting a few times when dan was flying up behind me, and i'm baring down on a slower GTE or GTC car...really have to get your line, judge your closing speed and braking correct...AND determine where the faster car is going and give the slower cars room...so awesome.

lobby b was so much fun.

when the quicker cars (prototypes) come to overtake, I check the mini map, rearview mirror (when they get close), and on some corners I purpose go wide to let them through.

I'm in GTE BTW.

gen3ral ts0 is 100% correct.Its up to the quicker cars to overtake as at the best possible time.Many people have no understanding of timing or the correct place to overtake a slower car.Fine they can drive fast but struggle with traffic management.TORA try to allow for clean exciting racing and are always pushing for a higher driver skill level.
I am not a big GT/ LMP fan but i enjoyed last night.I hope the moaning people understand how much time and effort making these championships run well.They deserve your thanks not a thread full of moans.
I hope they keep up the great work

F4H Bullet wrote:"You're an F4H driver, you should have all the skill, speed, and grip you need to cut through the traffic when it's safe, not just try to slice through at whim." Just quoting Hailfire(Fixed) here, but please don't use the fact having F4H in front of our names makes us the perfect racers. We are human, just like everyone else and people make mistakes. I've honestly felt by having these 3 letters as a representation of our club in front our names has put a target on us. Only a few of us raced here before and we really had no problems, but we showed up with more members and things began to take a bit of turn as we saw ourselves involved in more incidents that where not of our own doing.

You're human, yes, but you also hold insane times on the leaderboards. Whether that's the cars you use, the tunes you use, or the actual driving skill I don't know, but you guys are obviously quick.

When it comes to racing, I usually don't get to pay any attention to the F4Hs and CQRs. Apart from the time or two I've raced with MusicMan, and the TASCAR race (where I thought I was doing good holding pace with Insanity, but apparently he was just toying with me or something), I rarely even see you guys on the track, and I don't have to worry about anything.

You guys all seem to race with other people of the three-letter-designations like CQR, S2M, IRT, and BG (two letters, but still). The non-clans never even see you guys most of the time. Whether or not that's them targeting you guys or not, I'm not fond of TORA as a whole being blamed for it, as a lot of us never really race with you guys.


And sorry if I was a little blunt with Insanity, I'm just getting sick of some of the top-club drivers looking down at people slower than them. I didn't notice it until this season of ISCC/GT, and it's very off-putting. You haven't been one of them, and even then I don't really care when it comes to racing. I'd just like to get a little more respect.

Are you guys still needing the lobby A replay? Will send tomorrow if needed

Cheers dude yea if you could send cqr aero and Louis

F4H Carrera wrote:Are you guys still needing the lobby A replay? Will send tomorrow if needed

Yes ash please and thank you

Carrera if uve got the replay will you pop it on ur storefront please mate???

Is the Lobby Aero ran on the storefront? Would like to see if its worth doing a SI.