MSA TORA GT World Championship - Results & Standings

CQR D4N13L wrote:OK guys, let's go about this amicably. Scarlett has already stated that this isn't against CQR or VAMR. It just happens to involve us this time. But they have a right to express their concerns on the rules or decisions made in this championship.

I also want to apologize to BG for my earlier post, where I said "Every time something benefits an AMR driver it's because TORA are biased towards V-AMR."

This wasn't aimed at them, it was an observation that it just seems that VAMR always get caught up in this stuff.

At the end of the day, it the holes in the rules that are making these problems. The only reason we're discussing this is because we're 2 of the few teams that finished the season.

Guys we stand together. Lets get this correct for next season.



Like I have always said - I have the utmost respect for CQR - you are fast and very professional. It is always great racing with you gents.

BG Scarlett wrote:We are meant to be professional here and we should act accordingly.

Do you consider it professional to ruin the qualification of numerous drivers in a lobby by chatting throughout a session you are hosting?

Maybe those that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones

CQR Jono wrote:

BG Scarlett wrote:We are meant to be professional here and we should act accordingly.

Do you consider it professional to ruin the qualification of numerous drivers in a lobby by chatting throughout a session you are hosting?

Maybe those that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones

Hmmm, throughout the whole session. Maybe a slight exaggeration!!!!

So are you admiting it then by saying it wasn't the whole session? lol

And I love the Nick lfc quote there Jono! lol

CQR Franchitti wrote:So are you admiting it then by saying it wasn't the whole season? lol

And I love the Nick lfc quote there Jono! lol

Session

I did go to specsavers lol my bad

My reasoning stands.

If a driver that completed 169 miles in a sub-A lobby gets a finish time that, when the start time adjustments are made, has a finish time that is effectively "before" the chequered flag, they are credited the extra lap.

Whether you agree with it or not, the rationale has always been that the driver's qualifying lap time (which is a proven time set by that driver - they may be able to go faster in the race) is added to their finish time to account for the extra lap travelled.

Everyone always assumes that this amounts to a super fast lap added at the end of a race when tyres will have gone off, but who is to say it couldn't be a lap tagged on to the beginning of the stint? OK so it's not perfect, but no solution other than everyone running in one big lobby will ever be a true representation of what would happen in a real race.

Using the F1 analogy is a complete farse because in F1 everyone would be on track together, and if a DNQ car managed to go fast enough to get past the slower cars and be on the lead lap, it'd happen on the track for everyone to see and that'd be the end of it.

In this case, the driver has driven at a pace fast enough to cover 172 miles, therefore has travelled at an equivalent pace to everyone else on that lap distance. If I were to credit a lap at the slowest qualifying time, that would not be the case. Hence why I have credited Shifty for doing "172 laps" times.

One of the GT4 drivers got an extra lap too, putting him up to 150 miles, and the same rationale was applied - a "150 laps" time was added to his finish time.

I welcome the discussion and am open to considering alternative rationales, but the "nudge nudge wink wink" conspiracy comments are unwelcome and unfair.

Regarding those who qualified in A lobby who were bumped down, I forgot to account for that in the lobby start times thing, and will deduct the penalties from your finish times.

Thanks for clearing that up Chris

Right Aero, so going from your previous decision 'which was on the spot' because that is the only way you could have done it with the results you have, plus it not actually being in the stated rules, with giving out qualification times for an extra lap they did not do.

Now, you have decided to give an extra lap down to as you put it your 'gauge' of his pace, how on earth you can do that without having no qualification laptime to go by is amazing, yes he did 172 miles, there's another fact, but you don't know whether the car in question had damage, tyres that were off the cliff such as mine on the last lap, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW, and to 'gauge' it as you put it, is incredible to say the least.

He did not qualify, that is the be all and end all of giving a laptime, so by being fair to all, it's plain and simple logic to give the slowest qualification laptime as that is all you can go by.

Qualifying times being used was accepted before, as it had been used throughout the series, and so there is no issue with that.

If you are adding a lap on then by all means use a qualifying lap time because that is a verifiable data point that you have.


The F1 equivalent would be where a team has to convince the race director that they are fast enough to run and not be a hazard. Shifty being allowed to race essentially satisfies that requirement but what cannot be avoided is that he did not set a qualifying time.

Anything could happen in qualifying, any driver could lag out, pick up damage, run dirty laps etc. and not get a good qualifying time. In the event of that occurring, even a poor qualifying time should take preference over no qualifying time.

Giving a bonus lap based on what you think their race pace has shown is 100% different to giving someone a bonus lap based on what you know they can do based on their qualifying time.

By not taking part in the qualifying procedure you accept that you will start from the back and acknowledge that no matter what lap time someone else does in qualifying, their position will be ahead of yours on the grid. Therefore, the only lap time that would put you in the same position on the grid would be one equal to that of the slowest lap time set.

A lot of discussion here!

The whole added lap thing - good if you have a qualifying time, not so good if you do. I agree with Cowboy with using the slowest time in the lobby - DNQ is riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight at the back.

For future series may I suggest DNQs also start from the pits

We have had a explanation from organisers accept that and move on now. I wouldnt blame any of the staff for doing what simon has and stepping down because its none stop lately with any series results.

Im sure if someone opens a feedback thread for S10 ideas for future series regarding results this can help avoid this again.

Agreed

Championship is OVER lets MOVE ON.

Just to add my thoughts to wrap this up, Aero made a call and it was his to make. Maybe none qualifiers should not get to race in the future.

Mourne Identity wrote:Just a quick one.....I qualified in a lobby but was put into c lobby because I couldn't connect to blackbird does that mean I get the penalty for the lobby...sorry for the change of subject

Sorry Mourne but technically you should not have raced either, 3 invites and then we go is the rule. I'm glad you got into another lobby and look forward to racing with you again in the next series.

BG Blackbird wrote:Just to add my thoughts to wrap this up, Aero made a call and it was his to make. Maybe none qualifiers should not get to race in the future.

What if you weren't able to connect to the qualifying lobby, but you were still able to qualify?

think thinking is bye bye split lobbies for forza 5 but thanks for feedback gt endurance will change for forza 5 and wont even look like this

BG Blackbird wrote:Just to add my thoughts to wrap this up, Aero made a call and it was his to make. Maybe none qualifiers should not get to race in the future.

Mourne Identity wrote:Just a quick one.....I qualified in a lobby but was put into c lobby because I couldn't connect to blackbird does that mean I get the penalty for the lobby...sorry for the change of subject

Sorry Mourne but technically you should not have raced either, 3 invites and then we go is the rule. I'm glad you got into another lobby and look forward to racing with you again in the next series.

I hear what your saying blackbird but I've never not been able to connect to anyone bar you and their was talk of backing up the lobby and starting a new one as their was not just me couldn't connect to you so I think its a bit harsh saying I shouldn't of raced...personally i think if more than 3 people cant connect to a host we should choose another host,like we said in the party only we didnt have time.

BG Blackbird wrote:Just to add my thoughts to wrap this up, Aero made a call and it was his to make. Maybe none qualifiers should not get to race in the future.

Mourne Identity wrote:Just a quick one.....I qualified in a lobby but was put into c lobby because I couldn't connect to blackbird does that mean I get the penalty for the lobby...sorry for the change of subject

Sorry Mourne but technically you should not have raced either, 3 invites and then we go is the rule. I'm glad you got into another lobby and look forward to racing with you again in the next series.

i disagree with the DNQ shouldn't be able to race, i cant always make qually due to work and family commitments but i always do my best to get to the race i'm not fast anyway and last lobby is probably where i would normally be but the penalise someone for this reason would be wrong... we all have a real life aswell... i do enjoy the races with tora and have turned up to every race that i have entered so far and only missed 4 qually 3 in this series due to qually being at 7

Hmmm...

DNQs should just start from the pits. Bit unlucky if you can't connect to the race host, Blackbird! Bit surprised you said that actually :S ANYWAY. All is done with GTs now, hope it gets archived soon

I hope no one takes my comments as aggressive, I was just quoting the rules about the 3 invites and go. It was me that suggested restarting the lobby due to the conection issues. I would like everyone to race but you have to stick to the rules you have in place as with the 3 invites. With the none qualifiers there was no clear defined rule so my idea about people not on to qualify not being let race was only a suggestion, it's up to the TORA team to make sure a rule is in place so we don't have this confusion in the future.

I've loved the racing this season and would suggest everyone tells their friends about how well things are run. I would not have put myself up as a host to help if I didn't think the site had things right. I did have some issues at the end of the season with conections however my NAT settings are open. I think a change in ISP may be in order before my next races.

I know mate that was what I was saying....I don't see why I should lose 8 seconds overall for someone else's connection problem that's all.
I'm over the moon with the whole season tho to be honest and happy to be in the the top 20 but most of all I'm so happy that VAMR came 1st and 2nd great result lads and a pleasure to be a part of an amazing team

Mourne Identity wrote:
I'm over the moon with the whole season tho to be honest and happy to be in the the top 20 but most of all I'm so happy that VAMR came 1st and 2nd great result lads and a pleasure to be a part of an amazing team

You did a great job Mourne, getting some fast times out of the Aston. VAMR had a great season and let's hope it carries on for the TEC!!!

and many other series besides

Watch out world, VAMR has arrived!

To be fair, I think everyone in VAMR deserves credit for making this season such a success story. After all, it's a team game. And you guys have certainly done yourselves justice by finishing 1st & 2nd in the works teams championship! Many congratulations to everyone.

Once my life's sorted, I cannot wait to take part with this team once again.