TORA 12 Hours of Nurburgring N12 Race Results

Ok thanks. It may or may not make A huge difference for NSA elite but it is possible.

Given the circumstances, the fact that I am 100% positive at least 1 of my stints posted around a mile shy, at least one of my teamates has a shy distance as well..... Combine these with the fact that XP Racing was in the same lobby and scored under the same criteria, (B room could have done things differently) and there is only 2.22 miles separating 4th from a podium!!

I'm not sure how you guys did the calculations in the 1st place since there is not enough info provided to be accurate..... Many of these hosts posted their results and never said of the other competitors were measured before or after the move up.... This could make A difference of almost a mile per stint in some cases!!!!

Lobby A - Stint 4

I used the results posted in the Race Stints Results thread to do all the calculations. As there is no clear indication as to whether 185 miles is the distance Deftone finished at or if it is the next mile marker it was taken to be the distance at the next mile marker.

LMR Deftone MX
185 miles = 185*5280 = 978600 FT.
978600 FT - (8286 FT -5584 FT) = 978600 FT - (2702 FT) = 974098 FT

Speed Racer
28259 FT behind leader.
974098 FT - 28259 FT = 945839 FT


Lobby A - Stint 3

F4H Chrisupra said he did not take down distance to next mile marker. However he did finish within FT of where he did for Stint 5 so the leaders distance was based off F4H Chrisupra's distance for Stint 5 + the distance he was behind the leader in Stint 3. This is only what I can assume he was trying to say as there is some confusion between Stints 1, 3 and 5 in the message accompanying his results.

VVV Micko
= 865181 FT (F4H Chrisupra Stint 5 distance) + 98505 FT (F4H Chrisupra distance to leader)
= 963686 FT

Mr Grimp
= 963686 FT - 12567 FT
= 951119 FT





As you have alluded to; the results will only ever be as accurate as the information provided by the person submitting the results. I could only use the results that are posted to put data into the spreadsheet.

Sometimes it looks like there can be discrepancies when you talk to team mates and find out where you finished relative to them (I know, I've been there before too) but it is reliant on the information from each Stint being passed on clearly and accurately.

SP33D RAC3R 28x wrote:I'm not sure how you guys did the calculations in the 1st place since there is not enough info provided to be accurate..... Many of these hosts posted their results and never said of the other competitors were measured before or after the move up.... This could make A difference of almost a mile per stint in some cases!!!!

The distances are worked out the same in every lobby to stop exactly what you just mentioned. As for there not being enough info, if you have miles you can convert to feet. That's why we work out the distances by making the leader in the lobby drive forward to the next mile marker. By using the distance meter that tells us feet behind the leader we can then work out how many feet each driver has completed in the stint so each team's mileage is accurate to the nearest foot instead of mile

BG Cowboy wrote:
F4H Chrisupra said he did not take down distance to next mile marker. However he did finish within FT of where he did for Stint 5 so the leaders distance was based off F4H Chrisupra's distance for Stint 5 + the distance he was behind the leader in Stint 3.

This could well be where the differences are coming from.

The system has been in place for a while now and is a tried and tested method that is as accurate as possible given the circumstances and limitations in the game.

Well that's part of my point.... Instead of guessing at it you can contact the hosts who submitted the info and make sure you are clear....... "Approximately" doesn't really work when you are talking about 1100+ miles and 2 miles being the difference between a podium and 4th.....

SP33D RAC3R 28x wrote:Well that's part of my point.... Instead of guessing at it you can contact the hosts who submitted the info and make sure you are clear....... "Approximately" doesn't really work when you are talking about 1100+ miles and 2 miles being the difference between a podium and 4th.....

The race at Silverstone this year was decided by 646ft at the end. This system was implemented properly and to the best it could be. I had also done my own calculations before and after the race and the result was still the same. Hope you can take some resolve from this.   

TG Haydo.... Your post from stint #1 is on point. Absolutely perfect. The difference between your post and many of the others is YOU posted total distances subtracted from a secure position. The others post "leader's distance", "P2 distance, before and after move"and "P3 and down distances"... The problem is the "P3 and down distances" are not specified if they are from the final marker point or from the leader's original position.

If the leader moves he gets feet added while the others are parked

ROSCOEpCOTRAIN wrote:If the leader moves he gets feet added while the others are parked

The distance between where he stopped and where the next mile is, is calculated by the difference in distance to 2nd place in that lobby.

ROSCOEpCOTRAIN wrote:If the leader moves he gets feet added while the others are parked

The leader moves forward to the next mile in order to get an accurate calculation of distance in feet. It is not counted towards his distance. For example, I did 185 miles in stint 4. If I moved forward 1000 feet and hit 186 miles, that means I actually went 185 miles and 4000 feet, which makes everyone's distance taken off of mine more accurate.

Make sense?

Example...
Haydo does 9.5miles.
P2 Chris supra does 8 miles.
P3 XPR chicane does 7 miles
P4 cowboy does 6 miles.

Post shows
Haydo 10 miles
Chris -1.5 (-2 after move)
XPR -3
Cowboy -4

Calculations give credit for
Haydo 9.5
Chris 8
XPR 6.5
Cowboy 5.5

Get what I'm saying??? All distances were measured from 10 mile mark but were only given credit from leaders original position. You NEED to know where those distances were measured from!!!!

Or else everyone behind P2 gets the shaft.

When a lobby host collects distances they collect the distance of every player behind the leader BEFORE asking the leader to move up to the next mile marker and getting the new distance to second place.

This is how it has always worked with this system so there is no need to ask the host where those distances were measured from.

SP33D RAC3R 28x wrote:Example...
Haydo does 9.5miles.
P2 Chris supra does 8 miles.
P3 XPR chicane does 7 miles
P4 cowboy does 6 miles.

Post shows
Haydo 10 miles
Chris -1.5 (-2 after move)
XPR -3
Cowboy -4

Calculations give credit for
Haydo 9.5
Chris 8
XPR 6.5
Cowboy 5.5

Get what I'm saying??? All distances were measured from 10 mile mark but were only given credit from leaders original position. You NEED to know where those distances were measured from!!!!

No that's incorrect.

The driver moves forward to the next mile to see how far into the mile he was when he originally stopped. They only take the distance of 2nd place to see how far he had to go to get there, in order to give a more accurate overall distance for the whole field.

What it shows:
Haydo 9 miles
Chris 8 miles
Cowboy 6 miles

Haydo moving forward shows that in reality:
Haydo 9.7 miles
Chris 8.7 miles
Cowboy 6.7 miles

Yes there is.!!! These are not your normal hosts and these distances were not taken in a uniform maner!!!

Stint 1 we took leaders distance to 2nd... leader moves up and takes all distances from the 185 mile marker. I dont remember how we did it for stint 4 but I find it very hard to believe that of the 18 different rooms that were hosted with various different hosts, ours was the only room to do it differently.

At this point its not only the miscalculations that are disheartening but the unwillingness to listen to a logical concern on completely valid grounds, even when those concerns are spelled out clearly and a relatively simple solution is proposed.
i just can't seem to grasp why I'm just immediately being told I'm wrong and "the system" works just fine when I know for sure the results are at least minorly wrong and potentially mojorly wrong.

I know why the leader moves!!!!!!! And i know how its supposed to make sense!!!!!!! THIS IS NOT HOW IT WAS DONE THE ENTIRE RACE!!!!! why is Noone listening?? Noone else has to explain how the"system" is "supposed to" work!!!

not trying to scold my team here but the calculations make sense to me. not saying that they may not be a little off sometimes but thats up to the room hosts to make sure all their numbers are straight before posting the lobby results. I am damn proud of fifth place. I drove hard, granted I could have done better, but for a first time it was great. I have had worse first time experiences Anyways, we need to take a step back, take a deep breath, and then breathe fire in the next race in 2014 and show them what NSA is made of!

NSA, International, or Elite it does't matter. Yes I am proud of taking a top five but I am not satisfied and we wont roll over! We are coming for it next year. The rookie year has passed and no more playing around. You will see NSA in the top spot in 2014, you can bet on that.

Again, great race last weekend. Congrats to the winners in each class and I look forward to next season.

SP33D RAC3R 28x wrote:I know why the leader moves!!!!!!! And i know how its supposed to make sense!!!!!!! THIS IS NOT HOW IT WAS DONE THE ENTIRE RACE!!!!! why is Noone listening?? Noone else has to explain how the"system" is "supposed to" work!!!

I see where you are coming from here but the system has worked for a while now. It all comes down to how the information is relayed to the stewards. If the host doesn't calculate right or give all available info, the results will be incorrect. Given the difficulties that night with room hosts and last minute decisions, the results are as close as they can be. They worked hard to keep the race going and it sounds like someone or maybe a couple of the hosts were not used to what to do and may have given some slightly off results. It is what it is and the results are being looked at again. I think you accomplished your goal. they are reworking the results and maybe a few miles will end up being changed. either way i wont rest until we hit first, so on to 2014 and there we will reign supreme. take that energy and fight and use it next season and there we will succeed.

I think Cowboy has explained the "how" of the "how the distances calculated" very clearly.

The description you (Speed Racer) give of how the lobby distances were collected in your lobby correlate with what I would expect to happen, and are what is needed to calculate the distances correctly.

Hopefully I can clarify the rationale part for you.

At the point of everybody stopping on track, the lobby leader will be "some feet" into the mile that is shown on his or her screen.  The distances between the drivers though are correct, and so are collected.  The lobby leader is then asked to move up the circuit until their screen ticks over to the next mile marker, and the distance to 2nd is taken again.  By deducting the first recorded distance between 1st and 2nd, you get the number of feet that the leader had travelled beyond the mile marker when everyone stopped.

That gives us the exact distance the leader travelled, and the relative distances between 1st and each position in the rest of the field are calculated against that to give their finishing distances.

If a miscalculation has been made, we do have the results as recorded by the hosts, so they can be checked and re-run if necessary.

The requested format for results is in >>THIS<< post made a couple of days before the race.

Is it therefore reasonable to expect that the hosts have used this format for the results? I believe so.
In cases where the results were clearly submitted in an alternative format (eg. Haydo's) then they were put into the results accordingly.

In the cases where there was not enough information supplied these were detailed in a message to SelectiveRogue. I uploaded the results as provisional and he checked them before publishing them. He has since said he will get CQR Aero (who usually does all the timing & scoring) to double check them.

Speed Racer - I think you are looking too hard for something that isn't there.



While some hosts may have stepped up late, there were still regular participants in the lobbys to help guide them through the data collection process. As a community we should be looking to support lobby hosts, both new and established, and not discourage them from taking on the role of host in the future for fear of criticism. Without the hosts stepping up, this race would not have turned out as well as it did. They did a great job and all deserve congratulating for going above and beyond when they didn't need to.

i as in no way trying to discourage anyone. i just know that the behind the scenes that night have openly been discussed as being a little troubling. everyone that stepped up did a great job. the race went on and really thats what matters. they did a great job and i am very greatful for all that they do. we run our own series over at nsa so i know what that means. i cant imagine doing it on this scale. great job and thanks to everyone that stepped up that evening to let the race go on.

Aahh forget it. Noones going to listen anyway. Just talking to myself.

@aero, I get how it is supposed to work. Ive explained my point the best i can without being redundant. I am telling you at a minimum my stint 4 distance is wrong. I'll just say i don't know why. I'll play stupid to avoid mockery and patronizing from people who "know better".

I'm done with this.

On a much lighter note I had a lot of fun. Weather I will be running future TORA events or not is yet to be determined. Time doesn't allow for much racing any more.

Congrats to everyone who completed the event with no lag outs !!!

Speed, I think I see what you're saying. People are explaining what was "supposed" to happen with that mileage system and the moving up. You are saying that in stint (4?), this was not done, and it creates an error?

I was there for stint 4 as Drake hosted, and everything was done the way it was suppose to be.

Speed Racer, lets approach this from another way then.

You are saying your result from Stint 4 is wrong. That means that all the results from Lobby A Stint 4 are wrong.
Please, look at the results for that stint posted >HERE< and tell us with absolute certainty where the error is and what it should be corrected to.

If the ambiguity about whether 185 miles is the finish distance or the next mile marker then consider the following 2 scenarios.

1. You use 185 miles as the next mile marker then people potentially get a distance lower than what they covered.
2. You use 185 miles as the finish distance and 186 miles is the next mile marker then people potentially get a distance higher than what they covered.

Where ambiguity exists, you have to go with the scenario that ensures people will not gain an unfair advantage from the ambiguity.
This prevents ambiguity from being an advantage in any situation.

Does that sound unreasonable?