MSA TORA ISCC Season 5 - General Discussion (part 1 full)

BG Smithy wrote:

Racing Dk wrote:

VAMR Wilson wrote:Lobby E ran really smooth thanks to Mr TORA himself running the lobby  

We got on the grid and got into our start positions during the warm up lap and crossed the line to start the race at 2H 27mins so we raced till 27mins and everyone stopped dead on time.

We all did two pitstops and the traffic was the same for any lobby.

Ok thanks bud then its lobby D there are the problem i think there are 3m28sek of racing missing in the results because we dident race full 2 hours we only race 1h56m32s so that why we are that fare behind then CQR Aero needs to do a re-results where all racer have spend the same time on track

This was the same for every lobby, no-one raced the full 2 hours (something that was overlooked for this race but will be different for next race), you need to take into consideration the start time of your race and also the lobby penalties. This is why no-one should have the actual distance they had. Depends on what the time penalties equate to. Your 12 second penalty for being in lobby D plus start time may result in you losing a hell of a lot of distance overall.

Problem i have is that 1 we already did 3min+ less racing and c'mon 5miles in 12secs? That's a bit much ain't it?

Other than E lobby everyone else is in the same boat. Hence why the results may look weird but have been calculated correctly.

OcR Project239X wrote:Those UPS Gallardo's do look mint, especially the one with the red flashing.

Cheers man  

Apologies to Aero180 for lagging him into oblivion (while he was leading, I wanted to die....), I live way out in the country, no fibre optic for me  I must say it was way, WAY worse than it should have been, someone was uploading pictures during the race.
Other than that, TORA is awesome, driving standards are on top!

BG Smithy wrote:Other than E lobby everyone else is in the same boat. Hence why the results may look weird but have been calculated correctly.

I wasn't complaining if it was correct now would I? I covered 223 miles in race while not having raced full 2 hours, yes I know theirs a lobby penalty but then it's still not correct as it shows just 218 so that would meen in 12 secs I lost 5 miles with the lobby penalty ... I hat a perfect race with no collisions and the only error made in the race was when aero hit me in a slow corner leavin me with minor damage. That wouldn't explain why I'm so far behind for example e lobby drivers. I was 81.191ft behind the lead lmp, 51** ft behind the leading lmpc and 1019ft in front of the 3rd place contender which was wolfgang. I covered 223miles at least. The race time we did with 2 pit stirs was 1h56m32sec, with the lobby reduction that would make 1h56m20s

Further more I have said enough about the question and its not up to me to keep explaining that something went wrong

insanity nl wrote:

BG Smithy wrote:

Racing Dk wrote:

VAMR Wilson wrote:Lobby E ran really smooth thanks to Mr TORA himself running the lobby  

We got on the grid and got into our start positions during the warm up lap and crossed the line to start the race at 2H 27mins so we raced till 27mins and everyone stopped dead on time.

We all did two pitstops and the traffic was the same for any lobby.

Ok thanks bud then its lobby D there are the problem i think there are 3m28sek of racing missing in the results because we dident race full 2 hours we only race 1h56m32s so that why we are that fare behind then CQR Aero needs to do a re-results where all racer have spend the same time on track

This was the same for every lobby, no-one raced the full 2 hours (something that was overlooked for this race but will be different for next race), you need to take into consideration the start time of your race and also the lobby penalties. This is why no-one should have the actual distance they had. Depends on what the time penalties equate to. Your 12 second penalty for being in lobby D plus start time may result in you losing a hell of a lot of distance overall.

Problem i have is that 1 we already did 3min+ less racing and c'mon 5miles in 12secs? That's a bit much ain't it?

The results has to be re-done so all players have spend same time on track anything els would be unfair

BG Smithy wrote:Other than E lobby everyone else is in the same boat. Hence why the results may look weird but have been calculated correctly.

Not exactly, F lobby P1 times are 1:48's and D lobby was 1:46's and they are 6 Miles ahead of D. Thats more than a lap and even 16 seconds included. It seems weird that D lobby cars who are 2 seconds quicker are a lap behind even F lobby. Its saying I got a 217.8 and I really got a 223 still with doing only less than 2 hours...

Sorry about that post, ignore it, Insanity nL beat me too it.  

right to put you all straight E lobby was the  only lobby to run correctly and it has been calculated to as close as we can end of the day there was a lot of confussion and alot of hard work being put in due to running so many drivers on Q3 so please cut a little
things are not right i agree but as always first race is normally a learning curb and second one will be done much better

We had a good race
But when the results on the scoreboard are being not correct hmm
It matters for some people so live up to your good name TORA and do it right

To hopefully clarify some of the confusion as to why people's distances are different from what they actually ran:

I needed to adjust the finish distances because of the race length issue between lobbies. To do this, I took the recorded distance for each driver, and divided it by the race length that their lobby ran to give the average distance travelled per second.

I then looked at the run times for each lobby, and based on the smallest change/smallest effect on participants, took G lobby's time as fixed. I then gave each lobby above their extra 4 secs. By comparing the actual run time in each lobby to these adjusted/rebalanced times I could see how many seconds above or below the target time each lobby ran.

I then added or subtracted accordingly, that number of seconds, multiplied by the average distance in feet per second for each driver.

e.g. A Lobby turned out to be +1 sec over target based on G lobby's run time.

Each driver had their finish distance in feet divided by the total number of seconds the lobby ran for, then 1x that distance in feet per second was deducted from each driver.

If A lobby was 5 seconds over, for example, then 5x the distance per second would have been deducted.

Most lobbies were only a few seconds above or below, so only a relatively small distance adjustment was made, but one lobby in particular had a large adjustment, because they ran for about 2.5 mins longer than any other.

I take at least partial blame for the messiness of the first round because we do actually have in the rules a perfectly good method of running the session so that lobbies run for the correct length, and no adjustments are needed post-race. I was slower organising the race lobbies than expected (know how to be faster next time now), and also a bit rushed due to late running Q3, so I failed to properly brief the hosts. This won't happen again.

I hope that this explanation of my method helps to show that it's been done with a "sane" rationale and that I've treated everyone equally and fairly in the recalculation and done it in a "scientific" way.

Chris has done a amazing job hats off to Chris, enjoy Goodwood 2mw Get some pics for me

You not gonna make it then? Gutted, was looking forward to mooching around with you. Gonna go set a GT Academy time at the Nissan stand too....

I know im gutted couldn't get time off work lol make sure set fastest time there and tell there you race @ TORA lol should be nice weather as well

It still make no sense that all D lobby drivers are after E lobby drivers on the tabel i cant say how you can do it otherwise i can only say the tabel as it is now is incorrect and TORA use to have these thing in order

Despite the comments that were all in the same boat other than E lobby, No other lobbies appear to feel their mileage is off by as much as 5 miles.
You can be sure they would also be posting if it was.

Has D lobby been rechecked to make sure it got calculated correctly with the system used for this first week?

I completely understand that its a lot of effort to organise a championship of this magnitude and by raising these issues were not disrespecting that but look at it from our point of view in that we seem to have come off far worse than anyone else.

Feels like it would be fairer to wipe the scores from sebring and restart the championship at zero for the next round.
It's not our fault that this happened but we bear the consequences for the whole season while others have gained an advantage and TORA's reputation gets stained.

Fair to everyone is better if there is no way of being certain.

Aside from that,

Thank you to everyone that took part, hosted and organised the ISCC.
Round 1 was a brilliant opener for whats going to be a spectacular event

I have considered exactly that - wiping the scores and calling Round 1 a "test session", but that would probably frustrate different people who have no problem with the results and want them to stand.  It's one of those lose-lose situations once again that I so love getting stick for.

Round 2 will be handled completely differently (i.e. as per the rules as Round 1 should have been but unfortunately wasn't, so the "TORA used to have this in hand" kind of comment that is basically a thinly veiled taunt to see if I'll bite is just unnecessary.

CQR Aero wrote:To hopefully clarify some of the confusion as to why people's distances are different from what they actually ran:

I needed to adjust the finish distances because of the race length issue between lobbies.  To do this, I took the recorded distance for each driver, and divided it by the race length that their lobby ran to give the average distance travelled per second.

I then looked at the run times for each lobby, and based on the smallest change/smallest effect on participants, took G lobby's time as fixed.  I then gave each lobby above their extra 4 secs.  By comparing the actual run time in each lobby to these adjusted/rebalanced times I could see how many seconds above or below the target time each lobby ran.

I then added or subtracted accordingly, that number of seconds, multiplied by the average distance in feet per second for each driver.

e.g. A Lobby turned out to be +1 sec over target based on G lobby's run time.

Each driver had their finish distance in feet divided by the total number of seconds the lobby ran for, then 1x that distance in feet per second was deducted from each driver.

If A lobby was 5 seconds over, for example, then 5x the distance per second would have been deducted.

Most lobbies were only a few seconds above or below, so only a relatively small distance adjustment was made, but one lobby in particular had a large adjustment, because they ran for about 2.5 mins longer than any other.

I take at least partial blame for the messiness of the first round because we do actually have in the rules a perfectly good method of running the session so that lobbies run for the correct length, and no adjustments are needed post-race.  I was slower organising the race lobbies than expected (know how to be faster next time now), and also a bit rushed due to late running Q3, so I failed to properly brief the hosts.  This won't happen again.

I hope that this explanation of my method helps to show that it's been done with a "sane" rationale and that I've treated everyone equally and fairly in the recalculation and done it in a "scientific" way.

i dont know ty for the explanation but somewhere their has been made an error and saying that it is because its round 1 and it is a learning curve is a little strange since it is season 5 ....

Chris, your stress levels must be astronomical! You certainly have high tolerance levels.

Well put Newt, it seems a bit unfair that D lobby has lost more than a lap. I respect the gents that run all those calculations such as Aero. My question is, will the results be edited for D lobby or left alone?

Cant wait for Round 2 and hope to see all there!

insanity nl wrote:i dont know ty for the explanation but somewhere their has been made an error and saying that it is because its round 1 and it is a learning curve is a little strange since it is season 5 ....

The same system hasn't ran for a whole 5 seasons... (that's 3 years). The system has changed this season after feedback from previous ones.

Last time I checked, we were supposed to be having fun, not blowing ourselves up over scoring errors.

CQR Aero wrote:I have considered exactly that - wiping the scores and calling Round 1 a "test session", but that would probably frustrate different people who have no problem with the results and want them to stand.  It's one of those lose-lose situations once again that I so love getting stick for.

Round 2 will be handled completely differently (i.e. as per the rules as Round 1 should have been but unfortunately wasn't, so the "TORA used to have this in hand" kind of comment that is basically a thinly veiled taunt to see if I'll bite is just unnecessary.

You must not take this stuff personally its just a racing site. You put in huge effort and so do the racers & hosts. We all understand that mistakes happen and sometimes a make the best of situation occurs. It just seems to have affected one particular lobby more so than the others so were kinda feeling an error must be somewhere.
Your system of feet per second seems sound as a make do and it should kinda average everyone out equally rather than one group taking a bigger hit.

Again don't take peoples comments personally, Were sore because we got bumped and its human nature to try and find a reasonable explanation. Almost a compliment in the high standards that are maintained here.  

My view is every host should of read the rules for the comp before the off once they knew they were hosting. Takes minutes and any one of them could have queried it with you upon finding the start and end procedure.
Racers too perhaps, I was wondering when my host said we didn't have to start at a particular time and it would finish at 15 mins dead but once were running its hard to question the situation as well as race.

I hope there is a miscalculation for D lobby and its found when you have spare time but by commenting please don't think I take the work you guys do for granted

LastNewtStandin wrote:

CQR Aero wrote:I have considered exactly that - wiping the scores and calling Round 1 a "test session", but that would probably frustrate different people who have no problem with the results and want them to stand.  It's one of those lose-lose situations once again that I so love getting stick for.

Round 2 will be handled completely differently (i.e. as per the rules as Round 1 should have been but unfortunately wasn't, so the "TORA used to have this in hand" kind of comment that is basically a thinly veiled taunt to see if I'll bite is just unnecessary.

You must not take this stuff personally its just a racing site. You put in huge effort and so do the racers & hosts. We all understand that mistakes happen and sometimes a make the best of situation occurs. It just seems to have affected one particular lobby more so than the others so were kinda feeling an error must be somewhere.
Your system of feet per second seems sound as a make do and it should kinda average everyone out equally rather than one group taking a bigger hit.

Again don't take peoples comments personally, Were sore because we got bumped and its human nature to try and find a reasonable explanation. Almost a compliment in the high standards that are maintained here.  

My view is every host should of read the rules for the comp before the off once they knew they were hosting. Takes minutes and any one of them could have queried it with you upon finding the start and end procedure.
Racers too perhaps, I was wondering when my host said we didn't have to start at a particular time and it would finish at 15 mins dead but once were running its hard to question the situation as well as race.

I hope there is a miscalculation for D lobby and its found when you have spare time but by commenting please don't think I take the work you guys do for granted

 

Nice post

There is a drop round, and if by the off chance Sebring results get dropped, will that take away from the dropped round rule?

Nah Soundwave they would be punishing other people off the back of this then.

No reason to even consider such a thing

Chris you want to run every lobby on their own yet?




 

I would be punching holes in the wall by now.