American Endurance Cup Round 2: 12 Hours of Sebring General Chat

Discuss away

So that everyone knows, we are NOT doing rain stints at Sebring.

This decision is based off the fact that the puddles on track prevent safe overtaking in multiple locations, as well as the one leading to Turn 8 which forces drivers to cut the track in order to not going flying off track. This will not be changing, so for those that were looking for wet stints, I'm sorry to... Rain on your parade

F4H Diablo wrote:So that everyone knows, we are NOT doing rain stints at Sebring.

This decision is based off the fact that the puddles on track prevent safe overtaking in multiple locations, as well as the one leading to Turn 8 which forces drivers to cut the track in order to not going flying off track. This will not be changing, so for those that were looking for wet stints, I'm sorry to... Rain on your parade

+5 points for making life easier in the race

-10 for that terrible pun.

Try harder next time

Edited: Removed provisional builds to avoid confusion.

To be completely honest, not sure how I feel about the Z4s getting an additional 5% power through the Daytona Alternative. I thought they were already very capable of running 2:02s? And with their flavor being those massive tires I thought they would be a favorite for the bumpy Sebring surface.

I thought the idea was to leave the builds so the cars vary over the tracks and even out over the season. because now the viper has just been shafted at daytona

An extra 5% power for the Z4 would be too much at Sebring imo. I believe harmonic got a 2.7 in it last year with extra tyre widths on it, maybe that is a better way to go. I wouldn't be surprised to see a time well into the 1s with the extra 5%.

Saying this I would be extremely surprised to see anyone in the 1s with the current cars, unless the huracan is a beast that I don't know much about

After today testing 10% Z4 top speed is 170 while C7.R and Ferrari hit 163 and 162

CAR Amarth wrote:An extra 5% power for the Z4 would be too much at Sebring imo. I believe harmonic got a 2.7 in it last year with extra tyre widths on it, maybe that is a better way to go. I wouldn't be surprised to see a time well into the 1s with the extra 5%.

Saying this I would be extremely surprised to see anyone in the 1s with the current cars, unless the huracan is a beast that I don't know much about

Huracan can definitely get 1's, I'd bet on it. Not by me, but by others.

Like I said, provisional changes... Nothing set as of this moment. I'll let you all know more.

Also @moshys you're off base dude, the Viper is one of the fastest cars in the field, just no one's picked it. The ES+C guys showed that last year. At TURN, they didn't lose a race, and would've won Bathurst here at TORA had they not lagged out.

Cars will have advantages and disadvantages, but when you're looking at like a second spread, something needs to be done. That's all.

@Jan oh wow, alright, new plan for the BMW then

CAR Amarth wrote:An extra 5% power for the Z4 would be too much at Sebring imo. I believe harmonic got a 2.7 in it last year with extra tyre widths on it, maybe that is a better way to go. I wouldn't be surprised to see a time well into the 1s with the extra 5%.

Saying this I would be extremely surprised to see anyone in the 1s with the current cars, unless the huracan is a beast that I don't know much about

I think I can do 1's in both.

Huracan at current build I was at a low 2 after just 15 laps.

Z4 at 10% I was at a 2.1.

The problem is there's a massive difference it seems in the 5% on the Z4. Without a little help it will be the Ferrari and Lambo's race to lose



This is why I love GT cars and balancing :kappa:

JANlovesMRT wrote:After today testing 10% Z4 top speed is 170 while C7.R and Ferrari hit 163 and 162

Clarification. A guy in my group claimed 170 on 10% Z4. I have managed 167.

No one cared about the fact that the Z4 was OP at Daytona! Now that the BMW maybe isn't the best car at Sebring you want to change that? That's not ok, it was clear that every car should have the same build over the season! The BMW is clearly capable of mid 2s with a good driver!

I think it's not good to change the build for the cars now. Everyone has known what they got into when signing up to this series. We took the Ferrari knowing it wouldn't be the fastest at Daytona, but it will be probably good all around the Season. The Z4 was the best at Daytona because of its extra power, even with the handicap. So you should've known that you might be in a weaker car at Sebring. Giving the Z4 extra power at Sebring will render the Endurance Series uneffective, since 2 out of 3 races will most likely be won by the BMWs, except Lagouts perhaps.

NVirus999 wrote:No one cared about the fact that the Z4 was OP at Daytona! Now that the BMW maybe isn't the best car at Sebring you want to change that? That's not ok, it was clear that every car should have the same build over the season! The BMW is clearly capable of mid 2s with a good driver!

I kind of agree with this, the BMW may not be as quick as some other cars at sebring, but it had it's time at daytona and shouldn't be messed with really, it's not a million miles off. Like i've said before, this series was meant to have locked builds and i thought you wanted to avoid balancing cars for each track. People have picked their cars because they feel it was a good choice for the season, i personally think your taking the piss.

Yes Jay, I'm really trying to take the piss when I've spent at least 20 hours a week (30+ on race weeks) since mid-December administrating and organizing this [Censored] series??? Do you really think I want to throw that all away? Come on, dude.

I've fielded concerns from all sorts of people about balancing issues, so, I went with the transparent approach and listed off what I think may possibly change. Nothing set in stone, just things to try. I listed my reasons as to why I was attempting these changes; most importantly, to improve the racing at hand.

I didn't intend on changing the builds throughout the series, other than what's already been listed. FM6 has made it rather challenging to balance cars over a series and when I received more data, well, the cars are further apart than I intended. So, I looked to potentially make a change.

I care greatly about the success of this series as it's the first major series I've ever run, so it really pisses me off anyone would think that I'd take what's been a major time commitment and labor of love, and "take the piss" because I thought a slight BoP adjustment may improve things.

I'll leave the builds alone then.

yeah diablo I know the viper is an amazing car but from my testing it suffered at Daytona but was very good at the other tracks making it an even series. that's why I was saying if you make the builds again for sebring it has basically been discounted because of round one.

I could be very wrong about this but its just what I found so don't take my word as a 100%. if I am wrong about that then don't listen to what I said I'm sorry

F4H Diablo wrote:
I'll leave the builds alone then.

Does this mean leave them as they stand in the provisional builds? Or the standard builds in the Carlist tab.

Everyone knows that the gt cars are a nightmare to balance for one race let alone a whole season. All he asked for was help and I haven't seen any of it given just complaints. Anyways... the rebellion needed the balancing as it was capable of low 48s and the dp cars could only get low 49s. It was also much faster at Daytona than the dp cars from our teams testing. But we decided to pick something different since the dp cars haven't been done before and if we have to pay for that again i guess that's fine. It would be ideal for the cars to be close but whatever. I actually am displeased with anyone even in the stupid rebellion as it just seems like a complete cop out to make life easy

Zabbzi wrote:

F4H Diablo wrote:
I'll leave the builds alone then.

Does this mean leave them as they stand in the provisional builds? Or the standard builds in the Carlist tab.

They will stand as in the car list- I'm going to delete my post now about the "provisional builds" to avoid confusion.

NVirus999 wrote:No one cared about the fact that the Z4 was OP at Daytona! Now that the BMW maybe isn't the best car at Sebring you want to change that? That's not ok, it was clear that every car should have the same build over the season! The BMW is clearly capable of mid 2s with a good driver!

I'm in the BMW and I agree with virus here completely. People complaining about the car being slow just can't accept a challenge when things are not In there favor. Life isn't fair. The point I'm trying to point out is accept the challenge for once if it's not in your favor. There's trying to make things fair then there's trying to make things go in the favor of the individual. Which is selfish.

Joito04 wrote:

NVirus999 wrote:No one cared about the fact that the Z4 was OP at Daytona! Now that the BMW maybe isn't the best car at Sebring you want to change that? That's not ok, it was clear that every car should have the same build over the season! The BMW is clearly capable of mid 2s with a good driver!

I'm in the BMW and I agree with virus here completely. People complaining about the car being slow just can't accept a challenge when things are not In there favor. Life isn't fair. The point I'm trying to point out is accept the challenge for once if it's not in your favor. There's trying to make things fair then there's trying to make things go in the favor of the individual. Which is selfish.

Yeah I'm [Censored] done with this. I try to make improvements to a series, to balance things for all, and I just get accused of trying to skew things. Just [Censored] lovely.

I would love to help out anyway I can with testing/BoP. I'm fairly slow, but I get the sense we need more and more diversity when it comes to testing things out.

people are always hate man. I haven't done much running yet just with school and sick so I haven't been able to check GT but I know we're trying to help the series but the moment something comes along people will say something. I know you and I talked about trying to make it a locked build series but it is hard to do with the way fords has made there game and I felt that there were gonna be changes so I'm not saying anything about a change because I know if it's being made it's to be helpful

If changes need to be done they will be done for the fairness of everyone not for one person. There is yes the "locked builds" that we said but understand that we do not have the luxury of 1% power handicaps or this whole discussion wouldn't be happening. There is a big gap between the best car and slow car. Tell me if that is fair? It's not, so something will have to been done if we feel it is needed. We as in diablo and I were the ones who took the task of balancing the cars. And I understand that some of you guys want to help and we appreciate it and the day that stands out was the winter test at Daytona we made a lot of changes because the community helped us when we needed it. Just understand guys that we only want to make the best for the community. Not ourselves. You don't have to believe what we're saying or trust our word but at least know that we are limited on what can actually be done to balance these cars to make the best possible series for you guys. the racers.

As I've discussed with Joito privately, the builds are not going to be changed for the series for either class, and that's final.