TORA GT Meeting 4 Sponsored by GT Omega - Nurburgring GP

Matt wrote:To be honest, sod A lobby! Our lobby was where it was at! Awesome racing throughout the field.

^^

After a few messages, and reviewing the replays, there will be penalties for the races at Nurburgring last night. More to follow...

Ohh daayum..

Simon wrote:After a few messages, and reviewing the replays, there will be penalties for the races at Nurburgring last night. More to follow...

You could say which lobby could be affected

Ouch, that's gotta suck,

Chucky 1982 wrote:

Simon wrote:After a few messages, and reviewing the replays, there will be penalties for the races at Nurburgring last night. More to follow...

You could say which lobby could be affected

The fact we had a 3 car crash and no safety car. And no one but the lobby captain can now shout safety car after previous Incidents.  So in reality you are gagged when the lobby captain/community members are racing at the front.

Disclaimer: this is not aimed at anyone in particular and I've accepted last weekends incidents as things that just happen on a race night, done them myself and will do in the future I'm sure and I dont expect anyone punished.  This is not the point of this post.

Not to vent too much. But I've aput forward situations to look at in the past and never had any feedback either way.
I'll just race and hope if I make mistake (and I do make lots of them!!) I'm not penalised, as the stewarding on races seems beyond my mental capacity.
Penalties seem a dark art. What are consequences? Can someone put something up on this subject?
Also what do we have to do as per the MSA guidelines? I have no idea. Do we need to list all incidents under investigation and what your findings are?  Or is this just a computer game and stuff like this shouldn't be our concern??

We race to rules. They need enforcing at times to make sure it's fair for those that try to stick within them.

I agree we need more transparency in regards to the whole rules / penalty / in limbo system in my opinion. I have no suggestions unfortunately. Well, one maybe:

One thing I will mention, on VM they seem to have a good system.

To be honest, me personally, I only investigate races when someone feels the need to complain. If either me or someone else thinks that someone hasn't been driving to the rules, or fairly then it will be investigated, and then possible actions...

When the Safety Car Is Used
The Safety Car will only be deployed if an incident or incidents occur between three or more competitors that severly impairs all competitors involved. Only a driver involved in the incident may request the safety car, and make the request to the Lobby Captain. The Lobby Captain may seek the opinions of other competitors, before making the decision to activate the safety car period.

The Safety Car may not be requested during the final two laps of a race.

No 1 in lobby B called a safety car, yes 3 cars but No 1 called a safety car.

And going back to Penalty yes I agree, as of late we have had not 2 do many investigating because every 1 driving has been very clean.

However we will look into a standard penalty point system soon.

Like Simon said we have had always made it clear that contact any staff member and we will investigative the incidents.

I was in that 3 car crash and felt that it was 50/50 for a safety car, yes i could have called for one that ive taken alot of stick in the past for calling one so i thought id keep my mouth shut. My car was wracked after the crash and if there was a safety car i would have just fell down the field very quickly to were i finished anyway.

I feel that the racing is cleaner now than ever before cause we are'nt calling out moves as much.

Which crash are you referring to?
If you mean Race 2 L1 then I don't know that 3 cars were involved or indeed 'severely impaired'. I spun onto the gravel and after waiting to view around who if anyone was still around me, recovered to the pits for repairs straight away. So at worst there would have been only GTR's Alfa on track. Though as I say in the heat of battle you don't always see everything.

As regards the notification of stewards enquiries etc. I did set up a base post to be released upon receipt of any issues from competitors.
I will dredge it up once more and ensure that all staff are aware of it.
We are also looking in to appointing a full time Head Steward who will focus on just that. Ideally such a person has no allegence to any one team but I appreciate that isn't always possible. If anyone is interested in such a role and understands fully what it entails then please don't hesiate to contact the team.

Matt wrote:Which crash are you referring to?
If you mean Race 2 L1 then I don't know that 3 cars were involved or indeed 'severely impaired'. I spun onto the gravel and after waiting to view around who if anyone was still around me, recovered to the pits for repairs straight away. So at worst there would have been only GTR's Alfa on track. Though as I say in the heat of battle you don't always see everything.

As regards the notification of stewards enquiries etc. I did set up a base post to be released upon receipt of any issues from competitors.
I will dredge it up once more and ensure that all staff are aware of it.
We are also looking in to appointing a full time Head Steward who will focus on just that. Ideally such a person has no allegence to any one team but I appreciate that isn't always possible. If anyone is interested in such a role and understands fully what it entails then please don't hesiate to contact the team.

The crash was in race 1 it was Chaddy, myself and one other, I didnt know how many cars were involed I thought it was only 2 as me and chaddy were at the back of the pack.

Ah i remember that job, I thought Shane was doing that after me?

Chucky 1982 wrote:

Matt wrote:Which crash are you referring to?
If you mean Race 2 L1 then I don't know that 3 cars were involved or indeed 'severely impaired'. I spun onto the gravel and after waiting to view around who if anyone was still around me, recovered to the pits for repairs straight away. So at worst there would have been only GTR's Alfa on track. Though as I say in the heat of battle you don't always see everything.

As regards the notification of stewards enquiries etc. I did set up a base post to be released upon receipt of any issues from competitors.
I will dredge it up once more and ensure that all staff are aware of it.
We are also looking in to appointing a full time Head Steward who will focus on just that. Ideally such a person has no allegence to any one team but I appreciate that isn't always possible. If anyone is interested in such a role and understands fully what it entails then please don't hesiate to contact the team.

The crash was in race 1 it was Chaddy, myself and one other, I didnt know how many cars were involed I thought it was only 2 as me and chaddy were at the back of the pack.

Ah i remember that job, I thought Shane was doing that after me?

And i am saying this from a perspective of someone just turning up and racing with no real responsbility other than just race and not drive like a fool on a public lobby.
So i will say you guys on the community do an amazing job week in week out and its never TORAs fault something doesn't happen.

Yep it was the race 1 incident.. the race 2 incident was just me and and aston, which 100% agree was not a safety car and it shouldn't be under investigation - racing incident.
I hope i'm the first to say sorry if i hit someone and all the incidents i've been in everyone else has said sorry. A testatment to the association we have is i've never seen abuse of other drivers (other than me at chucky ) or people purposely hitting other cars (destruction derby aside).

I see the safety car as a way of keeping everyone interested in the race and actually add an extra dimension to the races, like pitting or the rolling starts.. I just feel i need clarity on what is an qualifying incident and when we (and who can) deploy the safety car.

I think the investigation side must be in place to keep the "fairness" of our racing at the level we have right now.

This is not a critism of anything we do, i just want a constructive debate.

Are you talking about after the Schumacher bends on the first lap when FranchittiFan collided with an Alfa and I?

At the time, from my perspective, I didn't completely understand what happened there; the Alfa swerved and I had to avoid it, causing me to run a bit wide right onto the curb, then I got hit on the side. I thought it was the Alfa, but it turns out when I watched the replay that it was FranchittiFan and he had taken down the Alfa with him. I guess it looked like a lot of damage was taken, and personally I would've called the SC.

They should really put a right stick on all steering wheels so you can look around the cockpit, and actual wing mirrors that reflect from a different perspective instead of just the left and right of the center mirror...

Yes Standaman that one, the alfa was me. I have not wacthed the reply to comment on the whole thing. Did you get much damage from it?

Ahhh ok. I only got about 12% front and side body damage, and that's about it ...

I got 33% front and rear so wasnt too much more then spinning round in circles and ended up right at the back of the field taking a couple of laps to catch up. As the rules stat "three or more competitors that severly impairs all competitors involved" I think only Chaddy and I was really affected from this so only 2 not 3

if i never lost it on the curb it would of been a sweet overtake

Just watched it, my run down to the first corner was insane. Then the crash which didnt help as ran one tune in Quily and then another for the race whichI never drove on which changed my gearing for all the corners. But did love racing it back past the guys at the back

Glad to see something being done to enforce the rules.

The first lap of the first race in room 1 might have well been with a group of random people in the public lobbies. Dive bombing, bumping and moving for position and people blatantly blocking on the straights.

I was really disappointed with all that seeing how I had become accustomed to good, clean racing here at TORA.

I was surprised to see Mopar001 banging into the rear of me going down the back straight on lap one in what seemed to be a misjudged attempt to overtake on the outside of a fast turn and to hear his surprise when he was on the grass on the outside of a high speed corner exit when not only was I taking my line but also recovering from a slide, especially when he was not even any where near alongside me!!

I had the best view of that, it seemed like he didn't expect your car to slide, MOPAR was also lagging slightly from my view, not sure if he was for you.

If I was lagging or something then it wasn't effecting anything on my screen. The only person I saw jumping around a little was RUN WIDE at the beginning and I was no where near him for it to matter.

I've watched my replay Magictap and from what I saw and remember I simply had the speed on you on that little back straight. I didn't see you slide or anything, all I saw was you moving from your right to the left and blocking me from advancing and your telemetry on my replay supports that. I was not next to you but was right behind with more speed and would have been on your left if you had not moved over forcing me to either go in the dirt or damage both our cars. We had passed the right hand kink and were already moving up to the chicane so I don't know why you still would have been sliding if you were.

If you were really sliding and/or recovering from it then I do apologize as that was not indicated on my screen at all. I was just disappointed to see this kind of racing all together, especially on the first damn lap.

Simon is there any word yet on action being taken for any incidents?

apology accepted, I know you don't race that way, and neither do I. Unfortunately I had damage from being hit from behind at turn 3 and then into my left side coming out the same corner, I have to drive this Wiesmann on my limit most of the time so any damage cause a lot of issues.

As for moving over. Had I not been recovering from a slide, you will see from the replay that going from the corner apex to the outside is my normal line, and a racing line, even if you had the speed, you were not along side and there is no reason why I would just move over to let you past!