TORA MSA GT World Championship 2013 - General Discussion

TweekPunx wrote:

Standaman94 wrote:I drive the Mosler

It's a piece of crud.

I have wondered why the Mosler is eligible to race (other than competing in a truck load of real life GT series, obviously) as it would seem to be at a pretty big disadvantage; y'know, being a road car and all.

The Mosler in game is the M900S, which is pretty much just a road version of the GT3 Mosler MT900R. Cept for some reason here in the TORA GT it has to have sport tires rather than race tires, probably because the S has more power than the R (as is with most road/race cars) so should have lower grip to compensate.

ShrinkingSteven wrote:We had the F430 but the F458 is new and 'Next gen'
M3 is old too and not used any more if that makes sence.

I know the F430 and M3 have been phased out by their respective manufacturers, but for the sake of having more (and ideally equal) cars available can only be a good thing right?

Standaman94 wrote:
The Mosler in game is the M900S, which is pretty much just a road version of the GT3 Mosler MT900R. Cept for some reason here in the TORA GT it has to have sport tires rather than race tires, probably because the S has more power than the R (as is with most road/race cars) so should have lower grip to compensate.

Maybe one idea if that's the case then maybe one idea could be upping the power handicap (maybe considerably) on the Mosler but allowing it to use slicks as a trade off. Then maybe it's be closer to it's full-GT3 rivals.

I cant actually beleve this Aston crap is still going on.

I agree the Astons a awesome and competitive car. But too competitive no.
I have gotten annoyied about how it compeared to the porsche just ask Bli33ard lol. But I have gotten on and moved on to the next round.

I think that the series was not made for VAMR thats just stupid.
And quite frankly it would go against probably everything that the MSA would want?
FIA/F1 maybe. With there little troll guy leading ( Bernie Ecclestone)

Also I also would think that if more of the top drivers stayied for the latter part of the season this whole thing would not have happened because it would be maybe a 5 way fight probably more for the win?

And also CQR have put masses of hours into making any car they use Lobby A worthy just look at TCC and even britcar/N8 last year in SP3 class they look a bloody VW golf for crying out loud to win.

Skill from driving/tuning.
NOT orginisers imput.

That my 50p worth.
Just quite shocked that when people arnt winning they throw ALL there toys out of the pram. Things never change.

I think that Daniel and Shifty just should go in the viper and thrash it around Silverstone for this weekend and see what times its got in it. However we all know what it can do so whats the point?

CQR MAGiC wrote:then everyone wanted the Z4 (I think Box quit because he couldn't keep up with it)

Box quit pretty much quit playing Forza altogether. May get on and do some laps but doesn't race. Dantastic never showed up to the races so that didn't help matters either.

CQR MAGiC wrote:Also, as the season has progressed and more top line drivers such as Box, ONR, VVV, TG have dropped out, that has flattered the results of others cars (as happened last season with the Jag)

I quit because the Audi is a piece of crap to drive. It can have it's moments of being fast but it's just not any fun to drive around the track. The McLaren was slower but much more fun to drive. The racing standards didn't help matters either. The first few races were a complete [Censored] show.

CQR MAGiC wrote:Everyone quit (paraphrased)

Some outlined above though I do think the Aston is one of the fastest car. It's the best race pace car for sure with the Z4 being the fastest car. The Aston excels at race pace, the direct opposite of the Lamborghini. Such a pain in the butt to tune and drive it to find that speed though.

XPR Roadrunner wrote:All I'm saying is that it looks likes a conspiracy theory when you take into account everything that has happened.

A lot of conspiracy theories come about when people cannot come up with a logical explanation on their own. I'm not trying to be an ass here but your logical explanation is that they are faster than you (or I for that matter) and they tune a car better. There is no conspiracy that the winner gets coverage. Does F1 give Pastor the same coverage as Ferrari or Red Bull unless he kills someone? Does Eddy Curry get the same hoopla as Lebron James? Does the 3rd winger for Ghana get the same coverage as Messi? It's pretty self explanatory why they did.

Standaman94 wrote:I drive the Mosler





It's a piece of crud.

Worm's brain wrote:so is the Viper

True, but you know that going in that it's a little off the pace. Leaps and bounds no, it isn't. When it boils down to it you are playing a video game with it's own limitations, and there are quite a few, that keep organizers from creating the perfect balance. You are choosing a real life crush on a car and trying to compete in a virtual race with it even though it's limited by being a virtual race. That is your own mistake and your own fault. Many of times when everything started you gave the vibe you knew it was slower and were happy with it.

Paranoid McGillicutty wrote:conspiracy theory

Had to come back because this is the most ridiculous comment I've seen about a series in quite some time. If something is wrong I don't hesitate to criticize staff or organizers but this is outright insulting and ridiculous. If anyone thought they were biased to anything they wouldn't be racing here. There were over 200 sign ups for GT. Do you really expect them to organize, gather, and put on the races while covering 200+ people? A full media team would struggle to do that. Poor Chris would still be typing right now.


I'll finish with the Aston sucked to drive for me. If you wanted to pick it the sign ups were open to do so and the opportunity was there for you. Quit crying.

Eddy Curry to Lebron.

It shoudl be Scalabrine -> Lebron

F4H Bullet wrote:stop complaining on how "slow' the viper is.

During the qualifying it was fine, it was the race where it was slow. It feels like driving a 787 against a Sauber.

CQR Franchitti wrote:The best car was easily the BMW, look how quick the ONR guys were at the Hock!, just crazy.

No.

The BMW is the fastest around two tracks, Hock and Suzuka, and to put it bluntly it all comes down to track selection for a series. I would certainly not pick the Mclaren to name just one because it was mostly a power based season, proved by the amount of wins by an Aston or BMW. To look for solutions and get the field even closer you could use the current data from this season and simply test by putting the fastest drivers in the slower cars and adjust until they are able to match competitive times. Yet again track selection is crucial.

Sunset Peninsula Full - Power
Catalunya Grand Prix - Handling
Suzuka Grand Prix - Mixed
Twin Ring Motegi Full - Power
Hockenheimring Grand Prix - Handling
Road America - Power
Nurburgring Grand Prix - Handling
Sebring International Raceway - Power
Mazda Laguna Seca - Handling
Silverstone Grand Prix - Handling

Id say that was a fair split based on current tracks on the game. No one wants to run bernesse alps lol

This talk of next season and looking into this year's data to help next season is a bit irrelevant, as the GTs won't be making their return as a full series until the next game we move onto in the next generation. The game will no doubt be very different to this one, and so the whole balancing process will have to start from scratch. Save for Silverstone and Nurburgring later this year, I don't think we'll see the TORA GT cars return to the track on Forza 4.

GTE is a different formula, and the cars act differently with the power restrictions removed. dare I say it, but if GTE proves to be much more balanced than the TORA GT cars with handicaps then those cars may well be used for the latter TEC events rather than the TORA GT cars.

BG Wumba wrote:

CQR Franchitti wrote:The best car was easily the BMW, look how quick the ONR guys were at the Hock!, just crazy.

No.

The BMW is the fastest around two tracks, Hock and Suzuka, and to put it bluntly it all comes down to track selection for a series. I would certainly not pick the Mclaren to name just one because it was mostly a power based season, proved by the amount of wins by an Aston or BMW. To look for solutions and get the field even closer you could use the current data from this season and simply test by putting the fastest drivers in the slower cars and adjust until they are able to match competitive times. Yet again track selection is crucial.

Everyone says the Aston is a power car and that's why it has won at power tracks. Are some people really that blind to the fact that it actually has less power after the handicaps than 90% of the car list, maybe more. It even has a lower top speed than the McLaren. Another thing that people can't be bothered to take into consideration is yes, The Aston is stupid quick at accelerating. Yet it has a low top speed, even lower than the McLaren again. It really starts to struggle once it hits 160. There are cars in the car list which can go way quicker than that. And now to mention the fact that the Aston has to drag around GT1 levels of downforce with only a GT3 engine ( after power penalty) and has a grip penalty too so we rarely get to use minimum aero anyway.

I count that the Z4 has been the quickest car at Hockenheim, Suzuka, Road America. And for most of the season it has been a quicker car than the Aston. If people like ONR were still racing in the GTWC, do you really think the Aston would've won at Laguna and Sebring. That would take the Aston's total wins for the season back down to 3. And the Z4 would have won a lot more than 3.

Richy59 wrote:This talk of next season and looking into this year's data to help next season is a bit irrelevant, as the GTs won't be making their return as a full series until the next game we move onto in the next generation. The game will no doubt be very different to this one, and so the whole balancing process will have to start from scratch. Save for Silverstone and Nurburgring later this year, I don't think we'll see the TORA GT cars return to the track on Forza 4.

GTE is a different formula, and the cars act differently with the power restrictions removed. dare I say it, but if GTE proves to be much more balanced than the TORA GT cars with handicaps then those cars may well be used for the latter TEC events rather than the TORA GT cars.

Forget everything I said then

Couldn't agree more Daniel, the car is shocking on top end.

Richy59 wrote:GTE is a different formula, and the cars act differently with the power restrictions removed. dare I say it, but if GTE proves to be much more balanced than the TORA GT cars with handicaps then those cars may well be used for the latter TEC events rather than the TORA GT cars.

I think that's a good move - I find the power penalty on the GT2 spec cars is a big factor in unbalancing the cars as it disrupts the power to downforce ratio. Cars that have lower levels of minimum aero such as the Ferrari and Ford GT are affected less by the power penalty than cars with high levels of minimum downforce such as the Lambo. Running the cars with normal power levels should help with balancing the cars more evenly.

Like you say, disagreements about the S10 car performance are pretty irrelevant now, everyone had the opportunity to test the cars pre-season and made their choices. It's interesting to see how people have jumped on whatever the latest bandwagon is as the season progressed, first it was the Lambo, then the Z4, then the Aston. The truth is the best drivers will always find a way to win, regardless of car or penalties, it's no coincidence that Daniel is the only driver in the current TORA GT ruleset to have won in all 3 car spec (GT1 Aston, GT2 Jaguar and GT3 Merc). I believe that just about every car (bar the Lotus and Mosler) are podium contenders, possibly race win contenders, with the right track and driver. CQR alone have won races in 6 different cars, they can't all be the best car can they?

The TORA staff have tried to do the best they can within the limitations of the game, and we should be grateful for that as drivers and teams. So let's just enjoy the final round and see out TORA GT on Forza 4 hey chaps?

CQR MAGiC wrote:

Richy59 wrote:GTE is a different formula, and the cars act differently with the power restrictions removed. dare I say it, but if GTE proves to be much more balanced than the TORA GT cars with handicaps then those cars may well be used for the latter TEC events rather than the TORA GT cars.

I think that's a good move - I find the power penalty on the GT2 spec cars is a big factor in unbalancing the cars as it disrupts the power to downforce ratio. Cars that have lower levels of minimum aero such as the Ferrari and Ford GT are affected less by the power penalty than cars with high levels of minimum downforce such as the Lambo. Running the cars with normal power levels should help with balancing the cars more evenly.

Like you say, disagreements about the S10 car performance are pretty irrelevant now, everyone had the opportunity to test the cars pre-season and made their choices. It's interesting to see how people have jumped on whatever the latest bandwagon is as the season progressed, first it was the Lambo, then the Z4, then the Aston. The truth is the best drivers will always find a way to win, regardless of car or penalties, it's no coincidence that Daniel is the only driver in the current TORA GT ruleset to have won in all 3 car spec (GT1 Aston, GT2 Jaguar and GT3 Merc). I believe that just about every car (bar the Lotus and Mosler) are podium contenders, possibly race win contenders, with the right track and driver. CQR alone have won races in 6 different cars, they can't all be the best car can they?

The TORA staff have tried to do the best they can within the limitations of the game, and we should be grateful for that as drivers and teams. So let's just enjoy the final round and see out TORA GT on Forza 4 hey chaps?

+1

Richy59 wrote:This talk of next season and looking into this year's data to help next season is a bit irrelevant, as the GTs won't be making their return as a full series until the next game we move onto in the next generation. The game will no doubt be very different to this one, and so the whole balancing process will have to start from scratch. Save for Silverstone and Nurburgring later this year, I don't think we'll see the TORA GT cars return to the track on Forza 4.

aawwwwww

Bli33ard wrote:With no disrespect to ATR Dan, this Aston has been the BEST car I have driven over the last 3 seasons because CQR have done such a great job on it. I don't see anyone challenging the fact that I've been consistently in Lobby B. CQR Daniel has been our talisman throughout this series, because he's bloody quick. It's fair that there is more coverage around the winner, isn't it?

Roadrunner I strongly suggest that you pick up your paper thin claims and your record player that keeps on skipping, saying the same things over and over and leave this conversation! Please!

I couldn't agree more....if not for Daniel and magic constantly doing mile after mile testing to then provide our whole team with the tune i fear id be down in f lobby but im constantly around the c/b and sometimes in the a because of this, so to say the aston is a much better car than the rest is unfair and unjust their was no mention of this at the beginning when the other cars were running well so why start all of this now when someone has proved with a lot of effort you can tune the problems out of the car.
Personally without Daniel sending me tunes I'm at least 2 seconds slower so there you go that says it all !

I'm just gonna drop it cuz nobody is getting my point and twisting my words.

I'm not bashing VAMR, at all. I know they work hard to get the car working great and have drivers that are far superior to myself and my teammates.

I work just as hard on the Viper's as they do on the Aston. nobody else's tunes I've tried have been better than mine and because I practice so frequent in the car, I'm often faster by a large amount than my teammates. But in the end I'm a mediocre tuner and take it for what it is.

I knew we weren't going to be the fastest by far, and I hoped for a top 12 in World GT, and we are right there atm, so for me its a job (almost complete) well done.

XPR Roadrunner wrote:I'm just gonna drop it cuz nobody is getting my point and twisting my words.

People are getting your point just fine and I don't see anyone twisting your words. They just don't agree with your take, that's it! You said other people feel the same way as you but I haven't seen anyone but you step forward.

CQR Deuce wrote:

XPR Roadrunner wrote:I'm just gonna drop it cuz nobody is getting my point and twisting my words.

People are getting your point just fine and I don't see anyone twisting your words. They just don't agree with your take, that's it! You said other people feel the same way as you but I haven't seen anyone but you step forward.

I get Roadrunner's point. But as I don't race, I think my opinion is null & void.

CQR Deuce wrote:

XPR Roadrunner wrote:I'm just gonna drop it cuz nobody is getting my point and twisting my words.

People are getting your point just fine and I don't see anyone twisting your words. They just don't agree with your take, that's it! You said other people feel the same way as you but I haven't seen anyone but you step forward.

+1

Anyways back to the championship in general I have to say barring any major issue for Daniel he should have this championship sown up so i'm going to offer some premature congrats

My only regret for this season is that my brother's girlfriend has stolen his time away from racing! Typical as I've felt i've done better than last season and would have loved to have seen what Beanz could have done in the Z4 with proper focus and practice.

Thanks Wumba, been a great season for VAMR so far. Hope we can finish on a high.

CQR D4N13L wrote:It really starts to struggle once it hits 160.

How many of the tracks have a long enough section where you can hit 160+ for a long enough time to claw back against the Aston's crazy acceleration?
Sunset, Road America and Hockenheim (barely).

In comparison to something like the Lambo or McLaren that has relatively poor acceleration, the difference between the 2 is like night and day.
Tracks like Motegi and Sebring have relatively low apex speeds and are tracks where acceleration reigns supreme, not power.




Anyway, the season has been fun and I am looking forward to 1 more outing in these cars before the Z4 GT3 gets retired to my garage's Hall of Fame (along with my starter car and a select few others like last year's Britcar Dodge Omni).

REMEMBER: British clocks go forward 1 hour on Sunday. Brits don't forget and almost everyone else should be on an hour earlier than they were for last weeks race unless their clocks go forward 1 hour too.

Lets get a good turnout for this one!

all this bickering about the Aston has surprised me as imo the Z4 was the most dominant car as it had the best power to weight ratio .