MSA TORA GT World Championship - Results & Standings

BG Cowboy wrote:Can someone explain to me how CQR Shifty can be credited with the extra lap at qualifying pace when he didn't even take part in qualifying?

I know I have disagreed about the credited lap being at qualifying pace before but when someone doesn't turn up for qualifying and then gets credited with an extra lap, how can anyone pluck a laptime out of thin air?

If you start at the back, you effectively qualified at the back so the credited lap should be at the time of the lowest qualifier - it's the only data point you have to go on.

In fact it's not the only data point you have to go on, because you also have the fact that the driver was travelling at a pace fast enough to cover 172 miles.

There hadn't ever been a case before of a person being in a position to achieve a credited lap, who had not qualified so no precedent to go on, and in this race there were in fact three drivers who got the extra lap who did not set a qualifying time.

In this case, I took the decision to gauge the lap speed of these drivers based on the distance travelled, and took the slowest qualifying time of the other drivers that achieved the same distance.

If someone has a bad qualifying session and dirties every lap but their first then they are still awarded that warm-up lap time and not the pace they ran at during the race.

Likewise, if someone damages their car early on in the race but gets credited a lap at their qualifying time without damage then it's not the pace they were running in the race.

You seem all to happy to use qualifying pace, not race pace, for every other occasion so the data point should come from the qualifying results and not the race results.


It would be all too easy to suggest that there is an undercurrent of team bias towards the VAMR racers given your team affiliation but i'll leave that up to the conspiracy theorists out there.

CQR Aero wrote:

BG Cowboy wrote:Can someone explain to me how CQR Shifty can be credited with the extra lap at qualifying pace when he didn't even take part in qualifying?

I know I have disagreed about the credited lap being at qualifying pace before but when someone doesn't turn up for qualifying and then gets credited with an extra lap, how can anyone pluck a laptime out of thin air?

If you start at the back, you effectively qualified at the back so the credited lap should be at the time of the lowest qualifier - it's the only data point you have to go on.

In fact it's not the only data point you have to go on, because you also have the fact that the driver was travelling at a pace fast enough to cover 172 miles.

There hadn't ever been a case before of a person being in a position to achieve a credited lap, who had not qualified so no precedent to go on, and in this race there were in fact three drivers who got the extra lap who did not set a qualifying time.

In this case, I took the decision to gauge the lap speed of these drivers based on the distance travelled, and took the slowest qualifying time of the other drivers that achieved the same distance.

If this series is based on MSA rules and regulations then the only fair option in such instance is to have the slowest qualifying lap from the whole event and not based on a supposed lap time he could have done on the basis of the distance he travelled in a race.
The mere fact that he was in lobby C should also dictate the slowest qualifying lap from that lobby?

Just my two pennies worth.

BG Cowboy wrote:It would be all too easy to suggest that there is an undercurrent of team bias towards the VAMR racers given your team affiliation but i'll leave that up to the conspiracy theorists out there.

Oh no here we go again lol

Congrats to all teams who completed this season I couldnt make as many as I hoped but races I did were competitive and close in all lobbys.

Roll on PCars and next gen so we can get some better tracks in the series.

Great result for all VAMR driver's I personally know how much time was spent getting that car quick so great effort from you all.

glad end of gts, really hats off to Chris, Jamie, Richy for helping me run championship when we all had to step in.

Expect more sprint when GT return on forza 5 hopefully....if not there is always C.A.R.S @ SPA in wet @ night to look forward too who knows may have to run a C.A.R.S GT championship if any good on the 360 by year end

BG Scarlett wrote:

CQR Aero wrote:

BG Cowboy wrote:Can someone explain to me how CQR Shifty can be credited with the extra lap at qualifying pace when he didn't even take part in qualifying?

I know I have disagreed about the credited lap being at qualifying pace before but when someone doesn't turn up for qualifying and then gets credited with an extra lap, how can anyone pluck a laptime out of thin air?

If you start at the back, you effectively qualified at the back so the credited lap should be at the time of the lowest qualifier - it's the only data point you have to go on.

In fact it's not the only data point you have to go on, because you also have the fact that the driver was travelling at a pace fast enough to cover 172 miles.

There hadn't ever been a case before of a person being in a position to achieve a credited lap, who had not qualified so no precedent to go on, and in this race there were in fact three drivers who got the extra lap who did not set a qualifying time.

In this case, I took the decision to gauge the lap speed of these drivers based on the distance travelled, and took the slowest qualifying time of the other drivers that achieved the same distance.

If this series is based on MSA rules and regulations then the only fair option in such instance is to have the slowest qualifying lap from the whole event and not based on a supposed lap time he could have done on the basis of the distance he travelled in a race.
The mere fact that he was in lobby C should also dictate the slowest qualifying lap from that lobby?

Just my two pennies worth.

I think it's slowest time from all cars that did 172 miles.

Hats off to VAMR thought the aston was a dog and still think so, great work all, need the new vantage next game

Bandit1097 wrote:

BG Scarlett wrote:

CQR Aero wrote:

BG Cowboy wrote:Can someone explain to me how CQR Shifty can be credited with the extra lap at qualifying pace when he didn't even take part in qualifying?

I know I have disagreed about the credited lap being at qualifying pace before but when someone doesn't turn up for qualifying and then gets credited with an extra lap, how can anyone pluck a laptime out of thin air?

If you start at the back, you effectively qualified at the back so the credited lap should be at the time of the lowest qualifier - it's the only data point you have to go on.

In fact it's not the only data point you have to go on, because you also have the fact that the driver was travelling at a pace fast enough to cover 172 miles.

There hadn't ever been a case before of a person being in a position to achieve a credited lap, who had not qualified so no precedent to go on, and in this race there were in fact three drivers who got the extra lap who did not set a qualifying time.

In this case, I took the decision to gauge the lap speed of these drivers based on the distance travelled, and took the slowest qualifying time of the other drivers that achieved the same distance.

If this series is based on MSA rules and regulations then the only fair option in such instance is to have the slowest qualifying lap from the whole event and not based on a supposed lap time he could have done on the basis of the distance he travelled in a race.
The mere fact that he was in lobby C should also dictate the slowest qualifying lap from that lobby?

Just my two pennies worth.

I think it's slowest time from all cars that did 172 miles.

Exactly. It's wrong.

BG Scarlett wrote:

Bandit1097 wrote:

BG Scarlett wrote:

CQR Aero wrote:

BG Cowboy wrote:Can someone explain to me how CQR Shifty can be credited with the extra lap at qualifying pace when he didn't even take part in qualifying?

I know I have disagreed about the credited lap being at qualifying pace before but when someone doesn't turn up for qualifying and then gets credited with an extra lap, how can anyone pluck a laptime out of thin air?

If you start at the back, you effectively qualified at the back so the credited lap should be at the time of the lowest qualifier - it's the only data point you have to go on.

In fact it's not the only data point you have to go on, because you also have the fact that the driver was travelling at a pace fast enough to cover 172 miles.

There hadn't ever been a case before of a person being in a position to achieve a credited lap, who had not qualified so no precedent to go on, and in this race there were in fact three drivers who got the extra lap who did not set a qualifying time.

In this case, I took the decision to gauge the lap speed of these drivers based on the distance travelled, and took the slowest qualifying time of the other drivers that achieved the same distance.

If this series is based on MSA rules and regulations then the only fair option in such instance is to have the slowest qualifying lap from the whole event and not based on a supposed lap time he could have done on the basis of the distance he travelled in a race.
The mere fact that he was in lobby C should also dictate the slowest qualifying lap from that lobby?

Just my two pennies worth.

I think it's slowest time from all cars that did 172 miles.

Exactly. It's wrong.

I think they do it that way because if he can do 172 miles, that means he most likely had the qualifying pace to do that distance. So, it's probably the most accurate thing they can do about it.

Bandit1097 wrote:

BG Scarlett wrote:

Bandit1097 wrote:

BG Scarlett wrote:

CQR Aero wrote:

BG Cowboy wrote:Can someone explain to me how CQR Shifty can be credited with the extra lap at qualifying pace when he didn't even take part in qualifying?

I know I have disagreed about the credited lap being at qualifying pace before but when someone doesn't turn up for qualifying and then gets credited with an extra lap, how can anyone pluck a laptime out of thin air?

If you start at the back, you effectively qualified at the back so the credited lap should be at the time of the lowest qualifier - it's the only data point you have to go on.

In fact it's not the only data point you have to go on, because you also have the fact that the driver was travelling at a pace fast enough to cover 172 miles.

There hadn't ever been a case before of a person being in a position to achieve a credited lap, who had not qualified so no precedent to go on, and in this race there were in fact three drivers who got the extra lap who did not set a qualifying time.

In this case, I took the decision to gauge the lap speed of these drivers based on the distance travelled, and took the slowest qualifying time of the other drivers that achieved the same distance.

If this series is based on MSA rules and regulations then the only fair option in such instance is to have the slowest qualifying lap from the whole event and not based on a supposed lap time he could have done on the basis of the distance he travelled in a race.
The mere fact that he was in lobby C should also dictate the slowest qualifying lap from that lobby?

Just my two pennies worth.

I think it's slowest time from all cars that did 172 miles.

Exactly. It's wrong.

I think they do it that way because if he can do 172 miles, that means he most likely had the qualifying pace to do that distance. So, it's probably the most accurate thing they can do about it.

Bandit, think about this logically - He missed qualifying and was put in Lobby C - shouldn't the time added come from the slowest qualifying time for the race lobby he was in?

BG Scarlett wrote:

Bandit1097 wrote:

BG Scarlett wrote:

Bandit1097 wrote:

BG Scarlett wrote:

CQR Aero wrote:

BG Cowboy wrote:Can someone explain to me how CQR Shifty can be credited with the extra lap at qualifying pace when he didn't even take part in qualifying?

I know I have disagreed about the credited lap being at qualifying pace before but when someone doesn't turn up for qualifying and then gets credited with an extra lap, how can anyone pluck a laptime out of thin air?

If you start at the back, you effectively qualified at the back so the credited lap should be at the time of the lowest qualifier - it's the only data point you have to go on.

In fact it's not the only data point you have to go on, because you also have the fact that the driver was travelling at a pace fast enough to cover 172 miles.

There hadn't ever been a case before of a person being in a position to achieve a credited lap, who had not qualified so no precedent to go on, and in this race there were in fact three drivers who got the extra lap who did not set a qualifying time.

In this case, I took the decision to gauge the lap speed of these drivers based on the distance travelled, and took the slowest qualifying time of the other drivers that achieved the same distance.

If this series is based on MSA rules and regulations then the only fair option in such instance is to have the slowest qualifying lap from the whole event and not based on a supposed lap time he could have done on the basis of the distance he travelled in a race.
The mere fact that he was in lobby C should also dictate the slowest qualifying lap from that lobby?

Just my two pennies worth.

I think it's slowest time from all cars that did 172 miles.

Exactly. It's wrong.

I think they do it that way because if he can do 172 miles, that means he most likely had the qualifying pace to do that distance. So, it's probably the most accurate thing they can do about it.

Bandit, think about this logically - He missed qualifying and was put in Lobby C - shouldn't the time added come from the slowest qualifying time for the race lobby he was in?

I'm more in the middle here. I think it should be based on slowest qualifying time in C lobby because he missed qualifying, but I also think it should be the slowest of the 172-mile cars because that was his pace. I'm undecided in something like this.

Let's get one thing straight - the MSA and any other governing motor sport body would not pick a lap time from his finishing pace - the only thing concrete we have is the qualifying times and as he didn't qualify, his time should be from the lowest possible common denominator - hence the C lobby qualifying time.

I have nothing against CQR Shifty, we actually had some good banter in the race - but come on. We are meant to be professional here and we should act accordingly.

Just a quick one.....I qualified in a lobby but was put into c lobby because I couldn't connect to blackbird does that mean I get the penalty for the lobby...sorry for the change of subject

One thing we could is maybe get the drivers who didn't qualify to set a lap after the race so that we have a time to base it off of. Not to sure if that will do any help, but I thought it would be worth suggesting.

Mourne Identity wrote:Just a quick one.....I qualified in a lobby but was put into c lobby because I couldn't connect to blackbird does that mean I get the penalty for the lobby...sorry for the change of subject

#

You qualified but couldn't connect. Totally different.

Bandit1097 wrote:One thing we could is maybe get the drivers who didn't qualify to set a lap after the race so that we have a time to base it off of. Not to sure if that will do any help, but I thought it would be worth suggesting.

You wouldn't have an F1 team not ready for qualifying on Saturday saying "Sorry Bernie, we are ready now can we qualifying before the start of a race to find our position before Sunday!" Would you?

So that means I get a penalty ???

Mourne Identity wrote:So that means I get a penalty ???

What penalty are you on about? The 4 second per lobby one?

That's the one buddy

The problem is all this should of been thought of before the championship was announced. To say something is wrong with no rule in place beforehand will just spiral into debate with both sides becoming frustrated. Maybe organisers should be hearing a suggestion for any future series and just let this one end now. I cant decide were I stand on extra lap as both have a good point but if one is decided for future championships then it is clear just to late to go changing one were a rule wasnt in place.

Mourne Identity wrote:That's the one buddy

Mourne I do not know. Sorry. I would think so though.

If you want to go into it that far, in F1, a team won't just be awarded the slowest competitors fastest qualifying time. They would go by the fastest practice time, which in Shifty's case would be a 53.4.

CQR CHRiS wrote:The problem is all this should of been thought of before the championship was announced. To say something is wrong with no rule in place beforehand will just spiral into debate with both sides becoming frustrated. Maybe organisers should be hearing a suggestion for any future series and just let this one end now. I cant decide were I stand on extra lap as both have a good point but if one is decided for future championships then it is clear just to late to go changing one were a rule wasnt in place.

This is not a witch hunt. But many a time an F1 race result has been decided after the weekend and the same should be here. Then moving forward there are these ambiguous decisions.

If this isn't a witch hunt, what is it?

Everytime something benefits an AMR driver it's because TORA are biased towards V-AMR.

But you also got to remember that F1 doesn't have to deal with multiple lobbies to run or connection issues. I didn't qualify because Steven's invites weren't entering my message box. So, my suggestion could only allow people who had connection issues or were forgotten would be able to take part in that extra time setting session after the conclusion of the race.