To all steering wheel users !

Hi guys, well i been using microsoft steering for ages, its becoming awfull due to the high milage, i feel like its a decent peace of kit for beginners, but then again i never try anything diferent than that like CSRs or GT2 from fanatec, what i came to ask is,
If you ever use the same wheel and then upgrade for fanatec versions, do you think it worth the effort? Are they more consistent in terms of feedback ? Are you able to shave bit more time on track and keep a steedy pace? Even the cockpit versions ?
Please can you give me an opinion and leave somr feedback?  
I just have a feeling that i could be faster and improve my tuning response if i had better assets  

From when I used a MS wheel to stepping up to a CSR I shaved over a second off. However it takes a few weeks to get used to CSR wheels.

Yes.... It is worth the upgrade. Especially if you plan on playing anything other than Forza. Forza compensates for Pad users by adding a bit of buffer for Controller users that allows them to be a bit quicker than wheel users if they choose to, and execute, a number of tricks that allow pad users to take advantage of this buffer.
However, on every single other racing game/sim I have played/raced. The wheel is considerably quicker. Not only that but it is also more immersive than a pad.
I do have to warn you however, that MS intends on blocking all third party controllers that currently work for the XB360. So it will not work for the XBone (did anyone at MS bother to think how that would be abbreviated BTW? X-Bone? Seriously? and its the third xbox... anyway, I digress.), then again, I don't know how many people will be around to play against if they stick to their guns on this, so there may be hope.

Oh... and get the clubsport pedals....

Im starting to get used to my CSR and its a good step up from the M$ wheel, however i feel you should keep the M$ wheel till the X1 comes. Ive heard the CSR won't connect to the X1 and that madcatz are making a X1 wheel.

He means Thrustmaster. Dan Greenawalt confirmed that Thrustmaster is producing the new official racing wheel for the Xbox One. From what I understand, it should be something along the lines of the T500RS, a high end racing wheel currently available to PS3 and PC users.

Oh yes i will wait, are thrustmaster good as fanatec?
Well i really fancy the idea of having clutch pedal to drive road cars and drift them with a 900* steering lock   the MS steering wheel did really put me off when i build the car for the Forza4 xbox rivals last year " final stage" Drag race. 2 PRTs had a good chance to win the xbox bundle with LCD TV etc. I made a winner car for then but, 1 finish 4th, 1 finish 7th....
And guess why???
The boys couldnt lunch the car properly coz MS steering only have button clutch ON/OFF, so theres no middle term   back then i realise that u can be really good but if you have proper tools makes go further...

The Thrustmaster comes with plastic pedals. It's about 50/50 if the Fanatec wheels will carry over to the next console and I'm leaning that they will. Can't say anything more.

Posimosh, there is no buffer in FM4 that allows controller users anything different from what us wheel users have. That is a myth and it is absolutely false. The difference is they can flick their thumb a tiny bit while we have to move our arms. The best motor skills in your body are through your hands, not your arms or feet.

Sorry worm I should explain a bit more what I meant by that. While using a controller, I use normal steering, which does have a buffer that deadens sudden movements made with the thumsticks (or wheel for that matter). Due to this deadening, normal steering is unusable for me because I use > 270 degrees of rotation on my wheel. The way fanatec made their wheels have adjustable sensitivity, is through a hack that either amplifies the rotation reading or dillutes it. Under 270 degrees is dillutes and over is amplified on Xbox because the sdk they provide for wheel hardware is based around the ms wireless wheel (which has 270 degrees of rotation). Anyway, anything over 270 (unless you get in to the 7-900 degree range) is way too touch on simulation steering and feels dead with normal steering plus there is the aforementioned "flick" advantage with a thumbstick.
The result of all this is normal steering feels fake on a wheel, and is quicker with a controller because of the buffer it adds to inputs one makes. You will notice this exiting corners primarily, and, while most of these issues can be compensated for with tuning, the top leaderboard times are all set with controller because players can exploit this buffer while driving undrivably (on a wheel) twitchy (but quick tunes).

Sim steering isn't really "sim". There is still a small buffer on both devices for normal steering. You can find Thomas' comments on the issue all over the internet. Turn 10 messed up our wheel support after the patch to fix wheel support when the game first came out. It made sim steering awful and we had to switch. Microsoft further borked it after the dashboard update last summer to kill off unlicensed 3rd party devices that also got our wheels. They fixed it for the most part but the steering wheel has not been the same since then.

via Thomas wrote:The steering mode "simulation" let all cars oversteer more easily. Even the slowest Nissan Datsun 510 going uphill on Fujimi Kaido will oversteer easily although the power of the car is not enough to go higher than second gear most of the time. Do an oval track with a Mercedes C63 and you will fly off in every corner. Tim Schrick mentioned the tendency to oversteer the virtual M5 already on his comparision to the real car and he was using the old simulation mode.

I think the problem is not the oversteering but calling the mode "simulation". If T10 would have chosen "drift mode" it would have been more appropriate and still makes sense as it is fun to play. Remember: difficult not equal to realistic.

If you want to have more realistic car behavior and be faster than in the old simulation mode, you need to turn the steering mode to "normal" now.

Also, your top leaderboard times aren't all ran on a controller and aren't all ran on normal steering. I know Rayzer uses sim steering and I believe b0x uses sim steering. They also aren't all set with controllers. Dazzler runs on a wheel and forza evama does as well. These tunes aren't horribly twitchy on a wheel either. Most of them oversteer because it is faster but also because a lot of leaderboard drivers are just really fast and have no idea how to tune a car. b0x admittedly cannot tune a car, he's just fast.

The main difference in the tunes is the decel being lower than what we can use. I have a CSR Elite and tested/reviewed it before it was released. Before that I had the MS Wheel then the Porsche GT2.

I strongly agree, i can be a top 100 driver in many classes and some track, most of times, spend only 5 mins on build, 5 minutes tuning, and under 10 laps, bang got the time! If i spend more time some PRT guys will get top 10 or even better, but our club is based in a group of friends who always love to play together! We been driving top cars from some top racers and when i open the unlock tune, i just want to laught coz 80% of it its just wrong with no sence at all  they are just fast drivers end. About the sim steering i think its the most stupid option made as i been driving many cars from 60 bhp hatchbacks to subaru, Evos, FWDs and RWDs with around 400bhp and the closest option who have on forza to match real life its "normal" steering, sim steering not even for drift as i been doing some in the past with a jap car,even welding the diff with tein coilovers set nearly to max spring rates, the G force tranfer between corner its more smooth than forza sim steering...

TG Wormburner wrote:Sim steering isn't really "sim". There is still a small buffer on both devices for normal steering. You can find Thomas' comments on the issue all over the internet. Turn 10 messed up our wheel support after the patch to fix wheel support when the game first came out. It made sim steering awful and we had to switch. Microsoft further borked it after the dashboard update last summer to kill off unlicensed 3rd party devices that also got our wheels. They fixed it for the most part but the steering wheel has not been the same since then.

via Thomas wrote:The steering mode "simulation" let all cars oversteer more easily. Even the slowest Nissan Datsun 510 going uphill on Fujimi Kaido will oversteer easily although the power of the car is not enough to go higher than second gear most of the time. Do an oval track with a Mercedes C63 and you will fly off in every corner. Tim Schrick mentioned the tendency to oversteer the virtual M5 already on his comparision to the real car and he was using the old simulation mode.

I think the problem is not the oversteering but calling the mode "simulation". If T10 would have chosen "drift mode" it would have been more appropriate and still makes sense as it is fun to play. Remember: difficult not equal to realistic.

If you want to have more realistic car behavior and be faster than in the old simulation mode, you need to turn the steering mode to "normal" now.

Also, your top leaderboard times aren't all ran on a controller and aren't all ran on normal steering. I know Rayzer uses sim steering and I believe b0x uses sim steering. They also aren't all set with controllers. Dazzler runs on a wheel and forza evama does as well. These tunes aren't horribly twitchy on a wheel either. Most of them oversteer because it is faster but also because a lot of leaderboard drivers are just really fast and have no idea how to tune a car. b0x admittedly cannot tune a car, he's just fast.

The main difference in the tunes is the decel being lower than what we can use. I have a CSR Elite and tested/reviewed it before it was released. Before that I had the MS Wheel then the Porsche GT2.

Pretty Sure we are saying the same thing. Possibly with the exception of the tuning stuff and leader boards. However, the leaderboards are full of tunes that have the rear bumper scraping the pavement under acceleration, cars that take advantage of coding sloppyness in the PI system, and cars with Bias-ply street tyres that out race modern radial tyres (with all else equal)... Also, while I acknowledge that there are exceptions to the conventional wisdom, I still submit to you that there are more top tens on controller than wheel by about 10-1. (Box doesn't count, he's not of this earth. Also, my german aint so hot but I believe I was in a lobby where he was talking about some "kontroller" that he uses and it wasn't a stock one... It could have even been like a flightstick... but as I said I only caught about every other word.) In my opinion the big thing T10 needs to sort out is macro controllers and tuning logic flaws (and sticky grass, and the drag tyre thing with no damage, and fixing aero damage).... But I digress.
Anyway, I think you get the picture that Upgrading to a nicer bit of kit will improve your racing experience. Xbox 360 and a wheel means you may not get the last few tenths while hotlapping, however, if you like other sims/racing games, especially for PC, you will really notice a difference there. If xbox 360 compatibility is your only consideration, is Thrustmaster and Fanatec. Due to licensing for these wheels they lack features that other wheels at around the same price have (specifically expandability), but it is nice to be able to have something that works with everything (at least until The ol' "X-Bone" comes out... Possibly).

what use GDLR Laige? he is always top 5, but i think he race for the top times +100 laps  

10-1?

What's the ratio of drivers that use a controller to a wheel that own the game? 1000-1? Seems like decent odds so throw that out of the window.

Bias-ply tires? They haven't been used since the 60's. Do you mean stock tires? Drag tires? If so you don't frequent the leaderboards or even run that often. Nearly everything has race tires on it from F-X

I've never tried normal steering, I might have to try it.

TG Wormburner wrote:10-1?

What's the ratio of drivers that use a controller to a wheel that own the game? 1000-1? Seems like decent odds so throw that out of the window.

Bias-ply tires? They haven't been used since the 60's. Do you mean stock tires? Drag tires? If so you don't frequent the leaderboards or even run that often. Nearly everything has race tires on it from F-X

True, i do leaderboards tunes and the only tunes who dont have race tyres are for Speed tracks,but we still use sport counpound and just because the relation Power/lateral Gs its not enough for some few tracks like Lemans ! I will tell even more, medium tracks like Mugello,Silverstone,and simillar, building a car with race tyres, and the time you downgrade to sport tyres, fill the PI with power and you will end up with more 0.4xx.xx + per lap, the only vantage of it is for Public Race as your build will be more even to most inexperience drivers out there that they still think POWER is the answer and they dont know how to take advantage of Lateral Gs they have in their build! That means, if you are a clean driver and you will get stuck behind them as i cant use the full potencial of the race tyres and when it comes to straights u wont have the Puff enought to overtake unless they do a mistake, unfortunaly public race are just very few laps per track, that means if you start at 16th on grid you will need to move fast and tidy  
But keep in mind, sport tyres they require a different driving style and suspension tuning otherwise you will loose even more time coz they get temperature variation quickly than race tyres! For leaderboards there is NO such thing as perfect build and tuning setup, what i believe is, Build : its now to logic of choosen track, and driver abillity (better on 1st,2nd,or3rd sector) Tuning: down to a good tuner ,BUT suspension(oversteer,understeer),brakes and diff needs to meet driver requirements!!

TG Takumi wrote:I've never tried normal steering, I might have to try it.

Doesn't matter, you'll still be fast

I use sim steering ,Zermatt uses normal steering.

I didn't know you used a wheel Dj Smile. F*ck the Tile

PRT RaCeR wrote:

TG Wormburner wrote:10-1?

What's the ratio of drivers that use a controller to a wheel that own the game? 1000-1? Seems like decent odds so throw that out of the window.

Bias-ply tires? They haven't been used since the 60's. Do you mean stock tires? Drag tires? If so you don't frequent the leaderboards or even run that often. Nearly everything has race tires on it from F-X

True, i do leaderboards tunes and the only tunes who dont have race tyres are for Speed tracks,but we still use sport counpound and just because the relation Power/lateral Gs its not enough for some few tracks like Lemans ! I will tell even more, medium tracks like Mugello,Silverstone,and simillar, building a car with race tyres, and the time you downgrade to sport tyres, fill the PI with power and you will end up with more 0.4xx.xx +  per lap, the only vantage of it is for Public Race as your build will be more even to most inexperience drivers out there that they still think POWER is the answer and they dont know how to take advantage of Lateral Gs they have in their build! That means, if you are a clean driver and you will get stuck behind them as i cant use the full potencial of the race tyres and when it comes to straights u wont have the Puff enought to overtake unless they do a mistake, unfortunaly public race are just very few laps per track, that means if you start at 16th on grid you will need to move fast and tidy  
But keep in mind, sport tyres they require a different driving style and suspension tuning otherwise you will loose even more time coz they get temperature variation quickly than race tyres!  For leaderboards there is NO such thing as perfect build and tuning setup, what i believe is, Build : its now to logic of choosen track, and driver abillity (better on 1st,2nd,or3rd sector) Tuning: down to a good tuner ,BUT suspension(oversteer,understeer),brakes and diff needs to meet driver requirements!!

If you're using anything other than stock tires on Le Mans in anything below R2, you're most likely doing it wrong.

Like i did say, build its to logic of choosen track  

Just use a pad, it's cheaper, easier and a lot less hassle  

Jesus Bulin, it's a specialist track.

I'm sure everyone here knows not to use freaking race tires on Le Mans.