MSA TORA GT Season 11 - General Discussion

Jono if you read back I NEVER said a bad word about him, in fact twice I praised him so feel free to pull any quotes you feel relevant forward.

I'm going to take a break now as I have other manners to address, bottom line is everyone expects something for nothing and complains when they don't get it, but are unwilling to provide help in those same areas.

The Staff who are assigned to the FM5 category will be taking over this discussion, best of luck to you all and I hope all issues are sorted for next round.

Neon I read your post just as I posted mine and I agree with you on that, I too have admitted to mistakes and trust me the appropriate thread related to this series is extremely active back of house and I expect one or two others to return to assist you soon.

Let's look at this in another way. What's happened has happened and it's now in the past. Nothing we can do about that.

However, thanks to the feedback in this thread, we are now aware we are lacking suitable hosts and that the balancing is still to be adjusted, as Chad pointed out above.

We are now of course looking to improve the Marshals team among many other team revamps. The car list will no doubt be looked at. Things should be improved by the next race.

We can't read your minds and we aren't always in the lobbies to see what's going on. There's no way of us knowing what needs to happen without appropriate feedback, and thankfully over the last we days we have (sort of) had that in this thread. A load of things seemed to go wrong on Sunday, so now we're looking to improve.

I think there will be a response thread at some point so we can receive the issues in an organised manner.

To be honest Warspite, no one is forced to run races or series here. You've said yourself it's all voluntary, and you, nor anyone else, is legally bound by contract to 'work' here. So the excuse of 'we have lives' doesn't wash with me, if your life is impacting your duties here then just step down.

I realise that there are circumstances out of ones control that can cause an abrupt absence, such as Chris with his newborn (I really hope all turns out well, Aero. You're an absolute trooper for even explaining the situation) & Richy works offshore.

But my point still stands, I really didn't like being in the stewards & got out after a few weeks. Credit to Wingnut for his efforts on Sunday night, but I wouldn't go as far to say he was forced to do anything.

Edit: just seen other posts addressing same issues

No Warspite, I posted in this very thread after Richy had posted that you guys might need help in hosting. I saw a few others posted as well, saying that they could help run things too. So none of you can say, that we aren't trying to help.

I was gonna post a massive post but nah enough as been said and have to thank you and praise you guys for standing up
No I wasn't forced and yes I wasn't intending to come online but felt it the descent thing to do else it wouldn't have happened
Yes it was hard work and run to my normal smooth way but
It's done and dusted and in some ways I'm done and dusted but we shall see
But thanks again for the support

I'm not gonna say much more on the subject, but I'm in general agreement with you guys in the community. We do provide a service, and that includes creating series, balancing cars, finding test teams, hosting our own events, finding hosts for events we can't attend prior to the race itself, following up on feedback and generating media either by doing it ourselves or finding people who want to do it and many other things involved in running an online series. Simply put we are lacking in a number of areas just now through a combination of factors. As such, when it starts to fall apart it does so quite dramatically. We have gotten away with it to a certain degree recently (probably a terrible choice of words here) because we have had a dedicated pool of marshals who have been taught what to do, a stewarding team that has proven that it doesn't require outside help and a CT team who has really pushed the racing and run series or encouraged other Teams from the community to do their own thing - for example the BG McLaren Cup.

Right now, the guys on FM4 are having a great time as there is a good number of Staff, CT members and Marshals still doing their thing and running championships well. On FM5 it's down to really a few staff members and a few other people we know have an XB1 and FM5 - like Wingnut for example. With that we can't go and say 'right, let's run this championship' and then not have anything set up to either simply run the championship ourselves or to have people in place who know what to expect if the people who set it up can't attend. It's not good enough really, and I don't blame people for not wanting to stick around anymore. There are other places that host races and series, and they currently have people in positions who can dedicate the right amount of time to do so.

I will say this though, we (I) have been doing this for 8 years and we're still here so we must have done something right along the way. I've been a part of the overall Forza racing community for that long so I know who does what, who people are and all the rest in between. I might not be well known but I know names and their reputations, and have been excited when they started racing here or seen reports of their on track battle on other sites with some of our regulars. The racing here in years gone by has been great and has attracted many people. Some of you guys have been on MotorsTV, we've been in magazines, been interviewed by the gaming press and have genuinely generated some interest amongst the sim racing community. We wouldn't be here without you guys and we still have the potential to be here for many years to come, but we won't be able to change things or fix issues if everyone decides that after a bad start to a season on a new game and console we are worthless and refuse to be a part of anything else we do.

We are looking at cutting Season 11 down to the half way point of 6 races. We need feedback on these cars to improve things. People have said these cars haven't been tested in a race situation, then lets use the remaining 4 rounds to test these cars and find the flaws and weaknesses. I didn't hear any complaints until after Round 2 at Catalunya and the cars were even praised by some of the people who are condemning them now after Silverstone two weeks ago. 

We'll need help if this is to work, and whilst I actually found the cars to be pretty good fun and enjoyable on track during the month of testing we did maybe I looked at it from a different angle to the guys who aim for the top of the leaderboards and who race in A lobby in whatever series they are in. It might be a case of us having to try use the current GTE cars that are in FM5 and have a smaller car selection but I've heard they are even worse to balance than they were in FM4. Do we all just want to race in the same car Spec Cups all the time? We have started looking at the TCC on FM5 after suggestions and feedback from some community member who came to us with an idea, if that works then maybe we can run them on a Sunday instead of the GTs until we find something suitable.

Once again thanks for your honest comments Richy - it's unfortunately refreshing to see a TORA Staff Member be so introspective.

I don't think for a minute that anyone within the community thinks the TORA Staff are 'worthless' but a great number are feeling disappointed and let down. There is no getting away from the facts:-

1) - The car list has been poorly tested and as such there are imbalances that are negatively affecting the racing

2) - The organisation on race nights has been way below the standards normally seen at TORA

3) - CQR Aero has been relied upon for far too long, many of us foresaw issues if ever he was unavailable

These are all extremely easy to fix and are issues we have all come across before, be it here or on other sites........although I feel race night organisation reached a new low on Sunday! Wingnut did an absolutely stella job on the night and has rightly been praised, but without enough experienced help he was always on a loser.

However, the most disappointing aspect of this particular issue, both for me and for most of the people I have spoken to, is the attitude of the TORA Staff since the problems were made public. At times the issues have been dismissed out of hand and blame has been sought everywhere else rather than taking the time to look within. No-one likes being criticised but unfortunately it goes with the territory. I find it concerning that there appears to be a 'we are the best' attitude cascading from the very top - as soon as any organisation starts to think this way there is only one way it will go. The posts over the past 24 hours have only reinforced my opinion that the site is now seen by some as a vehicle by which to further their own personal agenda rather than being used for what the majority are here for - fun, fair and competitive online racing!!

I believe it is this attitude that has seen many people, myself included, reconsider their continued presence both in this series and at TORA in general.

It would be a shame for things to end this way but I have a horrible feeling that for many this episode may be the straw that broke the camels back.

Lets start fixing things, the problems have been highlighted and we best get down to work.

If there are any FM5 racers that would like to be trained (become a Marshall) or given the correct settings for the FM5 GTS11 races please PM a member of staff/CT (rather hoping the settings will be put on the site for everyone)

Im sure a back up race director to CQR Aero will be chosen for the rounds Aero cant make, who with the (new) lobbies hosts will make sure the night will run as smoothly as it can.

As for the cars Richy's idea of racing till the midpoint sounds good, maybe even look at them between rounds???

Just trying to move things forward  

Just moving away from the organisation bit I have to say anyone trying to criticize the racing standards on TORA hasn't been a part of the last couple of TCC and GT seasons when there was quality driving, only a few incidents to highlight but that would be clutching at straws, and the only reason it's happened at Catalunya just looks to be a car balancing issue.

How can a CT member have the setting none of you actually have raced on forza 5 apart from hurricane and he is already doing a grand job withe the spec series
So please these members having there say on something they have never been please keep opinions in your head not on forums

Thank you

One thing about "balancing"... a car that is killing everyone at one track could very well suck hindtit on another.

TCC S8 is a great example of this. The Volvo was a beast on the straights, and a beast to make turn. At a track like Tsukuba, it would have been one of the poorest choices one could have possibly made, yet had there been a round of Road America, that pig would have been untouchable.

A somewhat imbalanced carlist can very easily be balanced with the mix of tracks. Let the rest of the schedule play out before making any harsh attacks.

As far as officiating goes, what made TORA work so well in FM3 and 4 was the Marshalling team. Look at the list of Marshalls among the memberlist, and you will easily find out why there were huge delays in this weeks FM5 event... very few of you guys have stepped up and applied to become Marshalls. The more Marshalls we have, the easier it is to host a smoothly run event. Plain and simple.

I have started talks of expanding the Community Team to include more FM5 people as well. We need experiences and dedicated members in this capacity. If you feel that description applies to you, send anyone with a red or blue name a PM and get involved in the process.

Cheers.

Hi all.

Restrained all my comments and emotions on this until now. I think I can sum up my feelings with:

For a 7 year old racing community that does it best, you sure ignore the lessons you learn every year. The feedback at the mo is in all honestly mostly common sense, let alone experience and history having a say. Sure you'll survive, sure you'll fix it. But please please please moving forward have some sort of check list against lessons learnt that will help you look and feel like the professional best community you profess to be. Basics like these just undermine the very good hard work everyone does. Which btw, is greatly appreciated. We ALL want to see TORA see its potential realised. However, without focusing on the cores and basics, anything else is on bad wobbly foundations.

Peace out.

Matt

Flyin Mikey J wrote:One thing about "balancing"... a car that is killing everyone at one track could very well suck hindtit on another.

I think some people are not quite getting what was brought up here, and sorry Mikey for just quoting you but a few people have said it. No car has dominated a track yet, in fact every car that has been in lobby A (quite a few different ones) has been capable of winning races. Bar a couple of cars, they can all set similar lap times. I was speaking with Magic last night, and we agreed the nature of catalunya brought to light how strong the GTR was mid-top end, with the long start/finish straight and a rolling start. It's a little different to the other cars in that regard and can be compared to the DBR9 in one of the GT series last year, sort of balanced but out of spec so to say. It still loses time in the corners and most cars will actually pull away coming out, but how this is going to pan out at the 'speed tracks', who knows? If you are going to be re-visiting the car list, i would like to offer to help.

I believe the main issue was organisation, and TORA is well aware of this now.

BG Wingnut396 wrote:How can a CT member have the setting none of you actually have raced on forza 5 apart from hurricane and he is already doing a grand job withe the spec series
So please these members having there say on something they have never been please keep opinions in your head not on forums

Thank you

Trying to help and I get this ^, we do have a FM5 CT member who can PM us the settings so if any FM5 member PMs us wanting them, we can just PM them forward, but it would be much easyer as I stated wingnut, to have them in a FM5 thread.

Must say I agree with all comments been posted, comments and feedback are needed and I agree with all what my club has posted and to what Richy has posted as well.

Need to learn and listen to you all quickly.

Will set up a feedback form later today and suggestions how to improve TORA :)for you

Must apologise for what happened seen so many big teams and them been let down is something I dont want to see, we do this as we love virtual racing first and foremost, I would also like to apologise for any comments made by staff which do not reflect mine or Richy message we race as we love racing with you all online thats it first and simple, Richy will be posting up later.

I don't feel like enflaming this any further so I won't.

I would like to point out to the staff that there are those out there that are happy to help. I'm not sure what happened with my marshal status, when I came back to TORA before the start of this season of GT racing I checked the marshal thread to see what was happening and I had access.

I then persuaded two friends to join me in entering the GT series, and then discovered I'd been removed from the marshals thread with no notification on email or pm? That didn't stop me trying to help wingnut on Sunday but made things very difficult.

One of my team mates suggested that instead of inviting people to race rooms, now we can have party's of 16 invite all to a party so if there are any issues around set up people can easily re join the race. People will need to physically exit the game and party they were in before, this should solve a lot of the set up issues.

I'm sorry about the mess on Sunday and me being unprepared to host caused some of the frustration, I my defence I didn't expect after being removed from the marshals to be needed. I like many people on here have a very busy private life and because of that I don't get much time to sit on a forum, however I do live on my email so staff please take that into account if you are struggling in the future. There are those out there that will help this site stay at the top, but without clear communication you will fail.

Ps. I love getting back to some structured racing again, even though round 1 race 2 was ruined for me by a lag spike. Keep trucking people.

Thanks for the info and help last weekend Blackbird, I'm not aware as to a reason why your not in the Marshal group but if your willing to be a part of it on FM5 with us then I can easily get you back in.

We won't be allowing something like what happened last weekend to happen again from an organisational point. That was very much our mistake and it was a major one at that, so I can only apologize for the lack of TORA organisation and what transpired after the event.

Regarding the car list, I'm not at home to help re-test the cars but we are working on trying to get another test group together or people who are willing to help us fix these cars, if that is possible. I don't think we'll see any changes for the next round as it is only a week away, but as I said previously we may cut the Season down to 6 Rounds and have the mid-point PI/Car Change window open up after Round 3 next weekend with some adjusted cars/rules so people can change as they see fit.

Once again I'm sorry for what happened, and we'll continue to work at providing you guys the service you deserve and the racing you want. We may have to take a step back with FM5 regarding the types of cars we are racing and look at creating a bespoke series that doesn't reflect any real racing - which we usually try to do (TORA GT/British GT - TCC/BTCC) - and create something that is fun, fair and balanced which will provide better racing that what we may have in GT S11.

Edited*

can't gift on f5

Is there any way to change cars? I don't care about points. The group I was getting tunes from is not really racing anymore and I would rather be in the viper. I read the rules, no car changes until mid point, but if you are now stopping at mid point, can I change now? I will gladly give up my points already scored, I just want to try and have some fun. Thanks.

We're still discussing the series length, but with it being this close to the next round we may not change anything until after this weekend. However if you want you could just start a new team in the Viper and enter through that?

x Gashi X wrote:Is there any way to change cars? I don't care about points. The group I was getting tunes from is not really racing anymore and I would rather be in the viper. I read the rules, no car changes until mid point, but if you are now stopping at mid point, can I change now? I will gladly give up my points already scored, I just want to try and have some fun. Thanks.

I'm the same as you in that I initially picked the Lambo to race in, however now I'm wanting to use the Viper as it's my preferred car having used it far more than the Lambo in single player and online.

Thanks Richy!

Anyone got a Ferrari tune they can kindly share