VAG Trophy Vote

As discussed in the General Discussion thread of the VAG Trophy, this vote will determine the entry regulations for the VAG Trophy. Please read the following very carefully in order to understand the issue.

The prize for the winner of the Drivers Championship in Class A will receive an invitation to drive a real-life VAG Trophy car at a track day in the UK. The law in the UK stipulates that to drive any car on a race circuit, you must have a full unrestricted driving license (to drive cars) from the UK or the country of your residence, or a MSA National B or higher racing license.

The winner of Class B will also receive a prize, although it will not be a drive in the VAG Trophy car.

The TORA VAG Trophy will be shown on Motors TV and Youtube a little later in the year.

The current entry rules for the TORA VAG Trophy say that entrants must have a Driving License, so that the winner can claim the prize legally. Some people aren't happy with that, and so we want to try and make this as fair as possible for those with and without a Driving License.

There may be discussion with the sponsor about possibly taking the drive to a private location, such as an airfield. Of course, that will not be the same experience as a race circuit and it is entirely at the sponsor's discretion.

In terms of travelling to claim the prize, we do not currently have any plans to cover the cost of that but we will again be in discussion about it. However it is very unlikely that we will be able to pay for those who would be travelling from outside of the UK.

There is going to be a North American VAG Trophy organised soon. This will be at the regular US timeslot (2am GMT) to suit US timezones. There will not be the same prizes for that series. We do not, of course, expect people outside of the US to stay awake until 2am on a weekday  to race in that series, but is it an option should you wish to choose it.

Regarding proof of License-holding, unless each and every entrant sends us a copy/scan etc of their License, there is no way we can prove who holds a License. However, if you win the Drivers Championship in Class A, we expect you to hold a License.

So that pretty much outlines the situation. More may be added to it if it comes up in discussion.

In order to get around the issue and let as many people who want to race, race, there are a number of options at our disposal. For each one I will outline what the option consists of and it's pros and cons.

A) All entrants must have a Driving License (UK or not).
This is currently what the entry regulations stipulate, and allows all entrants eligibility of the prize.
Pros: All entrants are eligible for the prize. Maximum fairness for all entrants, as they do not compete for the Drivers Championship with anyone racing who is not eligible for the prize anyway.
Cons: Fewer entrants and some members will be excluded from entering. Class B drivers must have a license even though they are not competing for the Class A Drivers Championship prize.

B) Class A for License holders, Class B for those without.
This is similar to A) but allows Class B to be populated with drivers without a Driving License and therefore eliminates the Cons of A).
Pros: All entrants in Class A are eligible for the prize. Maximum fairness for all entrants in Class A, as they do not compete for the Drivers Championship with anyone racing who is not eligible for the prize anyway. Members without a Driving License can still race in the championship.
Cons: Fewer entrants in Class A, entrants without a Driving License are excluded from Class A.

C) Class A for those without a Driving License, Class B for those with one.
The reverse of B), with the prizes for the classes swapped (so Class B receives the car drive)
Pros: All entrants in Class B are eligible for the prize. Maximum fairness for all entrants in Class B, as they do not compete for the Drivers Championship with anyone racing who is not eligible for the prize anyway. Members without a Driving License can still race in the championship.
Cons: Fewer entrants in Class B, entrants without a Driving License are excluded from Class B.

D) Three classes: Class A with license; Class A without; Class B with or without license.
Similar to B) and C), but expanded so that everyone can drive the car they wish.
Pros: All entrants can race the car and class that they desire.
Cons: Those competing for the Car Drive in Class A with a license will be racing against those who are not. Possible viewer confusion on Motors TV/Youtube and racer confusion in-race. We cannot guarantee a secured prize for all three classes.

E) Anyone can enter; the highest-scoring driver with a License claims the prize.
The reverse of A). If the driver who takes 1st place does not have a license, the prize is given to 2nd place. If 2nd place does not have a license, it is given to 3rd place, and so on.
Pros: All entrants can race the car and class that they desire.
Cons: Those competing for the Car Drive in Class A with a license will be racing against those who are not.

F) Anyone can enter; the top-scoring driver gives away the prize if they don't have a license (if this is acceptable by the sponsor)
This will only go forward if this option is acceptable by the sponsors. If this option is the one with most votes but the sponsor says no, it will default to option E). The prize cannot be sold or traded.
Pros: All entrants can race the car and class that they desire.
Cons: Those competing for the Car Drive in Class A with a license will be racing against those who will give it away. Possible unfairness in the prize giveaway. Possibility of member harassment etc.

Those are the options. This poll will be open only until 27/2/15 at 20:00 GMT.

After discussion with Staff, option A has been removed.

It does not make justifiable sense to ban non-license holders from Class B when the prize for Class B does not require you to hold a license.

If you have voted for Option A you may vote again for another option

I voted for A but it won't let me vote again

same

How come A got removed voted for it then removed very strange
Seems like someone didnt want A to win
Would anyone care to explain please

1 thing i have to ask about this, is if Option B does go through will the Multi Class Lobby still come into Play or will there be seperate Lobbies for Each Class?

Solar Flar3 wrote:1 thing i have to ask about this, is if Option B does go through will the Multi Class Lobby still come into Play or will there be seperate Lobbies for Each Class?

The lobbies will be set up similar to ISCC

Standaman94 wrote:

Solar Flar3 wrote:1 thing i have to ask about this, is if Option B does go through will the Multi Class Lobby still come into Play or will there be seperate Lobbies for Each Class?

The lobbies will be set up similar to ISCC

i wasnt here for ISCC so that means nowt 2 me haha sorry

Re-voting is working now, can click Cancel Vote and vote again. Cheers

Are class A and B run in separate lobbies in vote B?

They should be Rich or it becomes a mess if someone loses the prize because a in-eligible competitor takes them out. Only eligible entry's should be on the same grid. It's like turning up to a U13's football game with a premier league squad, not eligible but can affect the outcome unfairly for other competitors. Personally I'm not entering but when you run competition's rules must be clear that only eligible people can enter or take part.

CQR CHRiS wrote:They should be Rich or it becomes a mess if someone loses the prize because a in-eligible competitor takes them out.  Only eligible entry's should be on the same grid.  It's like turning up to a U13's football game with a premier league squad,  not eligible but can affect the outcome unfairly for other competitors. Personally I'm not entering but when you run competition's rules must be clear that only eligible people can enter or take part.

Brings Stan back to the Part of A class if the only Class you can race in and Win for the Test day of a VAG Trophy Car so what is the harm in others going to B Class?, i dont mind it been a different Lobby but what would be the point in 2 Classes if there aint gonna be a Multi Class, just defeats the Object of having 2 classes to a Series, but like i said in 1 of my Previous Comments cant please everyone, that is why i Voted A Before to stop all of the point scoring.

I get Stan's point but putting two classes in the same lobby can in term have an affect on the prize. Let me put it differently if you enter the British GT you race for a prize but someone decides im gonna run a mini I wont be on the pace so I'm not affecting the championship, they in turn wipe out the GT leader which loses him the title, thats were it becomes a clash and a issue where prizes are involved in the outcome.

CQR CHRiS wrote:I get Stan's point but putting two classes in the same lobby can in term have an affect on the prize. Let me put it differently if you enter the British GT you race for a prize but someone decides im gonna run a mini I wont be on the pace so I'm not affecting the championship,  they in turn wipe out the GT leader which loses him the title, thats were it becomes a clash and a issue where prizes are involved in the outcome.

if thats the case, thats just idiotic and stupid on that persons behalf myself i reckon i can trust everyone in the Series to allow the high Class to pass but without them going off there line, im a Steward myself so if i see any of that happening on the track i will make sure that it doesnt go under the carpet and that goes for any of my Team Mates at HCR, and for any other Team even urselfs, we just have to put trust in the other persons Driving Capabilities and if we cant do that, why are we even on this Forum for Good Clean Racing at all?

Because accidents happen in racing not saying it's a deliberate but that was just a example how offering a prize requires strict rules to who is eligible.

CQR CHRiS wrote:Because accidents happen in racing not saying it's a deliberate but that was just a example how offering a prize requires strict rules to who is eligible.

same goes for the people who are Eligible though if they have a accident and costs both of them the prize, its just a never ending arguement this and i will leave this to Stan and the Staff i had my say on the matter

I get that but as they were both eligible that's racing.

I completely agree with you Chris. I have cancelled my vote at the moment, if it is confirmed that B class will be in a different lobby I will vote B, otherwise I won't bother.

B Class is also Fighting for a Prize its just that B Class people will not be Eligible for PRize of the A Class People, its just arguements either way cause 1 person wants to compete for the VAG Trophy test Day and 1 other is Fighting for the B Class Prize its just 1 big Shamble atm, no doubt there will be another Poll Vote for Multi Class or Seperate Lobbies at this rate

What if someone's internet disconnected? Who do we blame then and what can we do to stop that? It's unfair on someone competing for the prize if their internet decides to shut off. We should only let people with wired ethernet connections faster than 50Mb/s who haven't had a single internet issue since 2005 enter.

Essentially, ship happens in (online) racing, and if we try everything to prevent it then it starts to lose the point.

The series is multiclass, like the real VAG Trophy. It completely defeats the point of a slower/faster class if they get separated.

Not only that, but I can't think of any sane reasoning someone in Class B would purposely try to wreck a Class A's race, particularly when there is a prize in Class B (a pretty darn good one it seems at the moment) at stake too. Even if they did, they would most definitely get DQed afterwards.

Solar Flar3 wrote: its just 1 big Shamble atm

It sure is should of been decided by staff an not altered once announced.

I understand that Solar but if they are competing for a different prize & championship points why not just keep them separate?

wonder how many people will change there votes now it been decided as a multi class lol

It's always been multiclass. Even from the open testing sessions a few weeks ago. Even the real VAG Trophy is multiclass.