Race Formation Vote

Okay so with all the possible outcomes of how to organise the EGT Starting procedure, we would like to give YOU, the drivers, the chance to vote what is best for you, remember we cannot please everyone, but whatever is most popular and if we can run it successfully, that is what we will do for the remainder of the series.

Thank You.

Cheers for taking the time to listen to the community and handling this with grace.

Hey dude, it's a New event and ran by myself and Steven who have never run one before on our own, things are bound to need a bit of improvement, and we appreciate when the Community understand how we want the series to be for them.

LMR WARSPITE wrote:Hey dude, it's a New event and ran by myself and Steven who have never run before on our own, things are bound to need a bit of improvement, and we appreciate when the Community understand how we want the series to be for them.

And...we appreciate when series organizers listen and make changes to best suit the series and not wait until the next time it's ran. Either way...nice work.

In option A. Wats thevgrid order for race 2

I didn't add it did I....

A would be Race 2 Reverse grid, but either way works with a pitstop.

Will add it now.

Option 1 but NO reverse grid for Race 2 (they promote chaos imo because people get impatient).

BG Cowboy wrote:Option 1 but NO reverse grid for Race 2 (they promote chaos imo because people get impatient).

They have plenty of time to pass all the cars. They need to learn patience then. Reverse grid promotes far better races. Also the reason we have SI's for those who can't drive with patience and respect for others.

Bonus about the Reverse grid is... you get an extra set of laps to make your move AND you can pit early if you can't get past the pack, downside is you take on any damage after, it cannot be repaired.

I'd say it usually takes 3-4 laps for the grid to pan out, so that could be your perfect opportunity to pit and get an open track to put the times down.

BG Cowboy wrote:Option 1 but NO reverse grid for Race 2 (they promote chaos imo because people get impatient).

I agree; but the mandatory pit stop will help prevent the chaos.

XPR ChicaiN wrote:

BG Cowboy wrote:Option 1 but NO reverse grid for Race 2 (they promote chaos imo because people get impatient).

They have plenty of time to pass all the cars. They need to learn patience then. Reverse grid promotes far better races. Also the reason we have SI's for those who can't drive with patience and respect for others.

How do they promote far better races? Because you are artificially creating more passing by reversing the grid?     

If 1st and 2nd have been racing hard throughout Race 1, why potentially insert 12 other cars into the battle (especially for the feature race)?
Likewise if 13th and 14th have been having their own battle in Race 1, why potentially involve the 12 faster cars?
You are just adding the potential for more to go wrong and ruin the good racing that was going on in Race 1.

Yes, there is the Stewards Inquiry process for bad driving but these take time to process and imo if you can do something to reduce the need for them, you should.

I like the tactics element the pit stop introduces but imo you shouldn't need to use it in the first few laps to get past people you've already earned the right to be ahead of by being faster than them through the combination of Qualifying/Race 1 performance.

Being faster doesn't neccessarily come from a finish position, you may have a bad Quali and in the race held back or caught in a battle meaning you have no chance at a podium, reverse grid allows anyone in the grid to potentially take the podium but with extra strategy, I like it to be honest but that's another detail we'll have to decide on.

I feel I'm going to be the only one that's going to vote for random grid for the second race. If that doesn't win, I would hope one of the options that have a reverse grid for the second race will win.

In Option 1, are all the races going to be 15/25 laps or will the lap count change?

LMR WARSPITE wrote:Being faster doesn't neccessarily come from a finish position, you may have a bad Quali and in the race held back or caught in a battle meaning you have no chance at a podium, reverse grid allows anyone in the grid to potentially take the podium but with extra strategy, I like it to be honest but that's another detail we'll have to decide on.

So you are trying to lessen the effects of someone making a mistake of their own doing and/or driving respectfully?
If you make a mistake in qualifying you should pay for it by having to battle harder in the race to move up.
If someone is bullying their way past, SI's are there for poor driving with a race result penalty for "repeatedly caused minor incidents, either purposefully or accidentally by not taking due care".

Consider this. [Insert fast starting car here] is 5th with [insert slow starting car here] in 3rd, 4th and 6th. The fast starting car could give up 1 position at the end of the first race, start a place ahead for the second race and put more places between them off the grid by virtue of it's fast starts. This is the sort of behavior that a reverse grid could promote.

If it was more than 2 races per round I would see the validity of a reverse grid (less of an impact on overall points for the round and more action) but with a sprint race and a feature race, to me anyway, it feels like too many twists are being put in for the second race. The pit stop adds a tactical element that you can control but the reverse grid just adds too much potential for poor driving that you can't control.

Congratulations for being the fastest over 15 laps, you now get to start at the back for a 25 lap race!    WAIT ... WHAT!   

Perhaps I'm too much of a purist and would prefer to just race.

See I agree it does make the guys who earned a good qualifying the advantage of starting at the front, but with a race of 12+ people it can be a bit boring to watch if the fastest 1 or 2 guys dissapear whilst the next 3-5 and 6-12 so on are battling for a position.

Reversed Grid has always been to keep the racing exciting and give everyone the chance to podium, if there are risks of crashing/damage then thats driver ettiquite NOT the reverse order, surely everyone knows how to be patient on track? if not, SI's are there to be given.

Reverse grid is to promote more "exciting" races. Two races makes little to no sense if the second race starts as the first race finished. Why have two races? Just for lag purposes?

2 races with second race starting as first race finished...typically very boring.

What I think is best is to reverse the first 60% of the drivers. There are many reasons why this is better IMO.

BTW...I've never put in a SI on anyone and probably never will. But...they are there for a reason...people who drive wrecklessly.

BG Cowboy wrote:

LMR WARSPITE wrote:Congratulations for being the fastest over 15 laps, you now get to start at the back for a 25 lap race!    WAIT ... WHAT!  

Perhaps I'm too much of a purist and would prefer to just race.

This is my definition of fun. Working up through the pack. Separates the hot lappers from people who can really drive.

I can see the benefits of both, but here's the way I see it:

Race 1 satisfies those who earned a good Qualifying, the further at the front they start, the easier for them to get a good result and less risk of collisions, which I believe is low anyway as I trust all drivers to understand track respect and limits.

Race 2 is an extended race, rather than being 2 straight sprint races, this tests the drivers ability to handle traffic, if they push through, likely they will take on damage, lose a good finish and risk having an SI against them.

With the faster guys at the back, this also means we get to see people having to fight to earn their places back, now most have likely already earned a good spot last race that is why they are at the back, this makes it a WHOLE lot more exciting for the commentators or anyone watching, because each driver has to use both driving and pitting strategies to come out top.

Either way you'll love one and hate the other, it's whatever we can make work better and look more professional is what we'll decide upon.

Well said.

If someone pushing through from the back takes damage they have also dealt damage to someone who would have otherwise been behind them. Does that person who was driving their own race in Race 1 and minding their own business deserve to get damaged? Sure the dealer of the damage may get an SI against them but it could also destroy a close battle that has been going on throughout the meeting up until the second race.

Chicain - check out the V8 Supercars 60:60 races. 60 minutes racing, a short break, 60 minutes more racing.
It's like having a safety car  but with the opportunity to fix damage and the close balance of cars means close racing anyway.

Warspite - more happening = more entertaining is a fixation of modern media. Sports Car racing fans are the same guys who are watching 6/12/24 hour races no matter how eventful (or uneventful) they may be.


What next, double points for the last round?  

No one deserves to get damaged but are you honestly saying we should rule out the reverse grid as a better option *because* someone can't be patient?

If they can't be patient in race 2, chances are they are not patient in race 1, and anyone who gives damage because of this WILL be punished for it, we can't say "let's make races shorter, easier, quicker" because we can't trust our drivers.

BG Cowboy wrote:If someone pushing through from the back takes damage they have also dealt damage to someone who would have otherwise been behind them. Does that person who was driving their own race in Race 1 and minding their own business deserve to get damaged? Sure the dealer of the damage may get an SI against them but it could also destroy a close battle that has been going on throughout the meeting up until the second race.

Chicain - check out the V8 Supercars 60:60 races. 60 minutes racing, a short break, 60 minutes more racing.
It's like having a safety car  but with the opportunity to fix damage and the close balance of cars means close racing anyway.

Warspite - more happening = more entertaining is a fixation of modern media. Sports Car racing fans are the same guys who are watching 6/12/24 hour races no matter how eventful (or uneventful) they may be.


What next, double points for the last round?  

I've raced in a lot of events over my virtual racing career and I've never been in a race that long (60 min) where it wasn't totally spread out and pretty boring. I totally understand where you're coming from Cowboy...I thought as you do not too long ago. Here's one of my own examples of why I promote reverse grid. VTCC...I'm sure a few drivers know of this series over here as there are many that race in it from here. Last week I qualified pole in B lobby. This happens a lot to me as I am constantly on the bubble for A and B lobby. VTCC's format is two races with a similar format to what is getting the highest votes at the moment here. I started in first and finished in first with a 5,000ft gap to second place. The second race was reverse grid with 14 total people in the room. I passed all 13 people and won the second race passing the final car on the last lap. That was a shyt ton of fun and if it wasn't reverse grid...well, my second race would have been just as boring as the first. I'm a purist, competitive racer like yourself and that's why I can relate to your message but after quite a few of the previous actions happening to me because of qualifying cutoff, I have completely gotten behind reverse grid. Some of the really fast drivers are only good on track if they are by themselves and screw up when it comes to pure racecraft. I like that the grid is reversed and all drivers have to show how they race in traffic plus the win is far more rewarding when you overtake the whole field.

Myself and Steven will have to decide on it between ourselves judging by what is put forward by people in the discussion threads, but chances are we'll go with what's set in the OP as that's what people have voted for, and in all honesty, I think that will provide the best, fairest and more exciting race.

Not at all. What I'm saying is why put people in situations they have earned the right not to be in:

Qualify at the top of your lobby   
Win Race 1   
Now start at the back!   


Or should be playing no part in:

Have a great qualifying session and scrape into a lobby above where you think you should be   
Have an epic battle for last in Race 1   
Now be cannon-fodder/chess pieces for Race 1 leaders moving up from the back  


I get that you are trying to add entertainment but, honestly, I don't think it needs it. The cars are closely balanced so there will always be a battle going on somewhere for the stream/media/fans to focus on.
When Vettel storms away with the race you don't see much of him. When Perez/Sutil/Hulkenberg are battling away you still see the battle going on.
If there's not much going on then monitor the progress of racers and make something happen. Are they closing in on the person ahead or losing time to the person behind? Perhaps go onboard for a lap with them? etc.
When cars complete their pit stops you always see/hear about where they have come out and how close other racers are.


Can it be boring to race on your own? Yes
Is it great to move up positions after starting from the back? Yes
Do you feel good when you get pole after being at the back for the first race? Sort of
And when you then fall to the back of the field again? Not so much

Should we be confident enough to say that the race we ran was the best we could without a sprinkling of topsy-turvy grid fairydust no matter what situation we found ourself in? Now that's the million dollar question!

I have raced in a ton of events which use many different formats, and not once have I ever disagreed with the reverse grid, if you are a faster/better driver, you can find a way through OR be patient, you already know you can hit a faster time than those in front, and if you feel you are loosing too much time, you use your pit to get some open track and crunch the lap times again.