Race Formation Vote

My final point on this (trust when I say you bring up some good ones and I do appreciate and understand where you're coming from)

Everyone deserves the chance to do well, whether some "deserve" to be at the front or not is a different question, but I believe everyone likes to know they can earn a good result, yes they either have or don't have an advantage, but its a race for fun at the end of the day, we're looking to whats more fun to take part in and to watch, not what makes it easier for the guys at the front to win.

I'm not saying that there isn't a place for reverse grids; but in the feature race of a series with fast, fragile GT cars?   

Is qualifying and the first race not someone's chance to be at the front for the second race?
If someone goes worst to first in Race 1 should they have to repeat the same thing in Race 2? What about 10th to 3rd?
What is stopping the reverse grid pole sitter from storming away with the race?
Is nobody happy if they finish mid-pack or lower?

IMO, if you want fast, clean, ten-tenths, straight-up, honest racing you don't need a reverse grid. If you want to keep the attention of people watching who might have ADD and might turn over if 15 seconds goes by without something happening then you might need a reverse grid.

Race 1 fastest guys at front, fastest guys win, no surprise or twist.

Race 2 fastest guys at front, fastest guys win, no surprise or twist.

This is a new series and a chance to try something new, the majority of people in the discussion thread agreed with a reversed grid, and that has reflected in the vote table above.

Iv provided my points as have yourself mate, I say if others don't want a reverse grid, voice up here or in the discussion BEFORE this thread closes Saturday.

Reverse grids are fun.   

I am not a fan of the reverse grid and hope to see it not used as it causes nothing but problems.

Cowboy, watch my replay for race 2 in A lobby (On my storefront), the racing was superb, I started 13th & finish 2nd, it was probably the best race I've had in ages. We're capable of doing it & it adds something else to this series

How about just one race per round...you qualify, start in the position you qualified in, maybe make the race just a tad bit longer. Standing starts, maybe implement a pit stop and then we can get past this entire discussion on what to do for the formatting of the races.

Thoughts?

rainonef1 wrote:How about just one race per round...you qualify, start in the position you qualified in, maybe make the race just a tad bit longer. Standing starts, maybe implement a pit stop and then we can get past this entire discussion on what to do for the formatting of the races.

Thoughts?

+1

rainonef1 wrote:How about just one race per round...you qualify, start in the position you qualified in, maybe make the race just a tad bit longer. Standing starts, maybe implement a pit stop and then we can get past this entire discussion on what to do for the formatting of the races.

Thoughts?

Because TweekPunx idea involved two races, to seperate from ISCC and TORA GT's.

I like the 2 race system with the first being a sprint and the second being slightly different, we've changed enough from what he came forward to us with and we are about to change something else, I don't want to take the whole idea away from him to just another GT spec race, he worked hard on this and unfortunately to keep it professional enough for pitlane, some details had to be sacrificed.

option e for me,,,as am just easy......as well you know,,lol

Let the voting do the talking.

VAMR Wilson wrote:Let the voting do the talking.

good point,,but I was never good at keeping quiet,,lol

G   

VAMR Wilson wrote:Let the voting do the talking.

And what about those who cannot vote as an option they support isn't provided?

Could "Option F - Other - please detail in a reply" be added? Or is it too late given that over a third of people entered have voted making it, to all intents and purposes, pointless?

Option C would be the closest for me, if a change has to be made, although I like the idea of a pit stop in one of the races BUT that scenario is only offered in Option A where I disagree with the use of a reverse grid. Also, for Option C, are there 2 equal distance races or a shorter and longer race as per Option A?

The current options are far too limiting imo.

Perhaps it would have been best to have 3 polls?
Poll 1 for the race format - Sprint race + Feature race, two equal length races along with a lobby points, reverse grid or random grid option for Race 2.
Poll 2 for standing start vs rolling start combinations - both standing, both rolling, one of each.
Poll 3 for pit stop in Race 1, Race 2 or both.


Everyone knew the rules when they signed up, why can't we just race with those rules and have fun?  

I think reverse grid might work, it's just last time race 2 was random so we could have had the winner starting last and last starting 13th. It was all over the place, that was probably the primary cause for people getting damage as one person may have been passing 5 cars whilst another 5 were coming past him!

BG Cowboy wrote:

VAMR Wilson wrote:Let the voting do the talking.

And what about those who cannot vote as an option they support isn't provided?

Could "Option F - Other - please detail in a reply" be added? Or is it too late given that over a third of people entered have voted making it, to all intents and purposes, pointless?

Option C would be the closest for me, if a change has to be made, although I like the idea of a pit stop in one of the races BUT that scenario is only offered in Option A where I disagree with the use of a reverse grid. Also, for Option C, are there 2 equal distance races or a shorter and longer race as per Option A?

The current options are far too limiting imo.

Perhaps it would have been best to have 3 polls?
Poll 1 for the race format - Sprint race + Feature race, two equal length races along with a lobby points, reverse grid or random grid option for Race 2.
Poll 2 for standing start vs rolling start combinations - both standing, both rolling, one of each.
Poll 3 for pit stop in Race 1, Race 2 or both.


Everyone knew the rules when they signed up, why can't we just race with those rules and have fun?  

We cannot please everyone therefor we are using the most suggested options in the previous discussion, technically we don't have to change anything as its already written out, but we want everyone to have fun, not everyone is going to adore every option and/or detail.

This thread was opened up after the discussion thread was heavy with wanted changes, I saw no one wanting to keep as is, now I have allowed them to decide, the new format will be what's best decided by the community, that's pretty much all that matters.

LMR WARSPITE wrote:We cannot please everyone therefor we are using the most suggested options in the previous discussion, technically we don't have to change anything as its already written out, but we want everyone to have fun, not everyone is going to adore every option and/or detail.

This thread was opened up after the discussion thread was heavy with wanted changes, I saw no one wanting to keep as is, now I have allowed them to decide, the new format will be what's best decided by the community, that's pretty much all that matters.

You saw nobody wanting to keep it as it is and yet still used it as an option and 3 people have decided they want to keep it that way voted for it!

Option A is the ONLY one with Sprint race + Feature race. Option A is the ONLY one with pit stops. If you want either (or both) of those then Option A is your ONLY choice.
So what you are saying is if people don't want a reverse grid they have to miss out on Sprint + Feature races and pit stops too?

The deck is massively stacked in the favour of Option A from that alone.

How can the community choose another option if it is not provided?
The only option they have is to not vote and if those community members don't vote their opinion won't show up in the results and won't be counted.
40 out of 60 votes could be for Option A - Could the reason the other 60 participant's didn't vote be because there was not an option they supported?
Could 40 out of to 60 who didn't vote support another option that wasn't offered?

    

No one voiced up to say they wanted to keep it as is, and seeing as we are considering a change, I have to include it as an option just in case.

If it were up to me as a race organiser's point of view, I would have picked what I thought best and what was put forward most as the option WITHOUT a vote, I cannot add "every" possibility to the vote as it would slow down the process.

This vote was out of respect for the community, there is NOTHING to say I had to allow one, just keep that in mind.

This isn't one of TORAs main championships it was made as a TCR event that got very popular very quickly so It was made bigger, and it had its teething troubles at round 1. Warspite,Steven and Tweek are doing there best to sort the issues and make it better for round 2. I feel the choices are the choices and we should chose one of them at the end of the day its the racing that counts. Its life that you sometimes dont get what you want.

LMR WARSPITE wrote: I cannot add "every" possibility to the vote as it would slow down the process.

Which is why 'Option F - Other - Please leave a comment below with details' would have been a great option to have!

Perhaps then people might have looked at the comments and offered to add support to an alternative option in the thread rather than one of the limited currently defined in the poll?

I'm not saying this because what I think has to be what everyone wants but because community members deserve the option to offer up alternatives if they feel the provided options are not suitable.

The options available were the most suggested at the time, only after the vote was opened people went against some of the options or want more, I'm sorry but there is only so much I can do.

I want to get this moved forward as quickly as possible, I have sat and listened to everyone's opinions and have used them to improve the remainder of the series, it is a new series and is the first time myself and Steven have run one on our own, therefor we are doing our best.

The options above are what was most supported, there may be others that could be added but that was because they were not mentioned before or not detailed enough to make a separate option.

People have cast their votes, and at the end of the week we will have the new format to follow that option, if individuals do not like that option and would like something different, you are more than welcome to keep it in mind if a second series were to come around and we can put it to the community to decide before it launches.

BG Cowboy wrote:I'm not saying this because what I think has to be what everyone wants but because community members deserve the option to offer up alternatives if they feel the provided options are not suitable.

And that is why I have allowed a Vote and not decided on my own, I could have just said "Okay new format is this" but I didn't, seems the more power I give to the community to decide, the more I am being punished because I have not given enough....

VAMR Wilson wrote:This isn't one of TORAs main championships it was made as a TCR event that got very popular very quickly so It was made bigger, and it had its teething troubles at round 1. Warspite,Steven and Tweek are doing there best to sort the issues and make it better for round 2. I feel the choices are the choices and we should chose one of them at the end of the day its the racing that counts. Its life that you sometimes dont get what you want.

I don't think Warspite is doing a good enough job.   

Voting closed, and the Thread is now locked.

The new format has been decided as the following:


Qualifying (As Normal)

Race 1 will start with the host arranging the drivers in order, which will be done by calling positions and names, all drivers will do a lap of the circuit and realign within the marked grid spots.

The host will call a time for the race to start (10 seconds minimum) and the race will begin from a standing start, any jumping before the designated time will result in a penalty.

The first race will last for a pre-designated amount of laps (this round will be 15), and all drivers will do a full sprint to the finish.

5 Minute break to allow all competitors to rest and/or grab a drink, please no later than 10 max.

Race 2 the host will call out the grid in reverse order by name, so the driver who finished 12th will be 1st, 11th will be 2nd, and so on.

All drivers will then drive a lap of the circuit and form up in the grid slots, same as Race 1 but in reverse order.

The host will call a time for the race to start (10 seconds minimum) and the race will begin from a standing start, any jumping before the designated time will result in a penalty.

The Second race will last for a pre-designated amount of laps (this round will be 25), however this race will require a Mandatory pit stop which must be done between laps 5 and 19, failure to pit within this window will result a penalty OR in severe cases, points removed, so please be aware.

This will be modified and added to the Rulebook today so all drivers are aware.

Thank you to everyone who took the time to provide replacement options to continue the series, and to those who voted and/or provided comments towards it.