MSA TORA Sebring 12H - General Discussion

Sub Zero Nova 2 wrote:

HCR Solar wrote:i wasnt attacking anyone, i was explaining the stuff i know, if people see that as an attack from me, Ask Nova if u see that as an attack that is very Lenient haha

Nova a few people have said they would like me to carry it on, ive upgraded mysetup also so the keyboard is a bit more lenient on the Microphone, but after things ive heard and seen i will not do Live Comms, people see it as "He should be doing" No im not even on TORA Media Team, and yet i took my time to do this for the people, as Stan was having Issues, Brad had Issues and so Did Zeta, and i think mine was the only 1 that actually didnt Rip halfway through, it took alot out of me tbh, and i was looking forward to doing it again, but meh, alls i see on here is people moaning and complaining about 1 thing or another. either it be the Registration, The Live Timing or the fact there was no Live Comms for a certain stint they mite of wanted to see, if i wasnt racing in the HCR Team that was fighting to keep 3rd spot, id quite happily do the Live Comms all way through, but i cant unfortunatly so ill do my onBoards

well if you like it never give up Fella

i enjoy doing it dude, ive been Streaming now for about 6 months and got alot of Support from it, and had alot of criticism from others, but ill still stick to it, no matter what happens ill always be Streaming unless my PC blows up, Then il just buy a new 1 haha SCREW AMD CPU!! -_-

and Kegerton its like Final Fantasy's Dragon Warrior, Stuff like that, if you PM ill send you the list of games im going through

Kegerton86 wrote:I wasn't bashing your team if you read my previous comments I was bashing TORA

So in bashing TORA, your bashing me, therefore bashing our team.

You do realize TORA isn't a person, it's a community, you bash the work people put in and one day, as Matt said people will end up having enough and leave.

You probably have no idea how much time I spent on this, instead of spending it with my family, setting things up for this to run as smooth as we hope it to run.

And to the people complaining HCR have too many teams I have to laugh really, if you look at the time stamps for the extra registrations I put in, you'll see I put 2 of them in, at 2:00 before anyone else, then you complain we have too many?

Would you also complain and moan if someone crossed the finish line before you because they drove quicker than you?

If you think it's as simple as just adding an extra lobby, how about you build some docs, take registrations for it, and run a third of your own? Then you might appreciate how hard it actually is to organize something this big.

One more time.

We are an online racing community, yet we bicker more than we race.

We are recognised by the MSA, yet cannot discuss an issue with a similar level of formality.

We welcome all people and encourage them to join, yet drive them away with our own arrogance.

This is not how we should be acting as an open community. All of us have been responsible for this at some point during our time here.

If you want to start an argument with someone, take it to them, not the forum pages. If you want an open, formal discussion, you may speak your word here.

We joined because we wanted a racing community that supported everyone. Let's keep it that way.

and one more time, I've tried to reason with people and all you get in return is the minority trying to ruin it because they don't get their own way. I've said enough anyway, if you have anything constructive to say put it in the suggestions form

HCR TJSteel im sorry im so intellectually flawed and don't understand anything what is FORZA and TORA by the way its so confusing even after running my own company for 5 years and sacrifing the first 3 years of my daughters life so I can be in the position I am now I still know nothing sadly ... Maybe you almight god can show me the way

Kegerton86 wrote:HCR TJSteel im sorry im so intellectually flawed and don't understand anything what is FORZA and TORA by the way its so confusing even after running my own company for 5 years and sacrifing the first 3 years of my daughters life so I can be in the position I am now I still know nothing sadly ... Maybe you almight god can show me the way

Thanks for your constructive input. This will be noted for future discussions

Adding an additional lobby to TEC is like adding 2 rows to a Rubik's Cube whilst solving a normal one.

F4H Diablo wrote:Adding an additional lobby to TEC is like adding 2 rows to a Rubik's Cube whilst solving a normal one.

It makes it easier ? XD

*Yawns* tbh TJ is 1 of the people who hates turning people away for Racing, he will feel bad about not been able put in a 3rd Lobby, but as he has said, its very hard to sort docs out and i will say again they struggled with 2 Lobbies, 3 Lobbies is asking for a disaster in my opinion, i think we as a Community, should atleast be happy that we have 2 Lobbies going they could easily take it down to 1 Lobby, and we as a community should not be bashing TORA or any Team for that matter, I believe a few Teams have been bashed before and moved onto other Sites or made there own Site/Series, if guys wanna keep bashing certain individual Teams feel free, alls ya doing is hurting TORA and this Community we have going,

and on that note im streaming and really cba say anymore

Tbh Solar you are one of the only HCR guys who have been respectful about about this whole situation so I thank you for that but please out the arrogance and pre Madonna attitude of a few of your team mates. Anyways I'm done commenting on this subject when all you do is get attacked for voicing a valid opinion if others cant take it then don't be rude about it at the end of the day it is just a video game and that's that. I'm just gonna race and that's it. Bya

Kegerton86 wrote:Tbh Solar you are one of the only HCR guys who have been respectful about about this whole situation so I thank you for that but please out the arrogance and pre Madonna attitude of a few of your team mates. Anyways I'm done commenting on this subject when all you do is get attacked for voicing a valid opinion if others cant take it then don't be rude about it at the end of the day it is just a video game and that's that. I'm just gonna race and that's it. Bya

tbh with you dude, i dont think my other team mates were trying to be disrespectful, after been the main 1's targeted for having 6-7 entries, i can understand there frustration, there the team leaders, and tbh, and calling out a Team what i dont think you did at first was someone else, its kinda Unfair to just call 1 team out, for us having so many Active drivers who want to race, this is probably the first time we have had this many teams signed up to a Series, this big tbh, so we wanted to get as many people in Cars as possible and that is what we have done, Teams arent even finalized yet, and some of the 2 man Teams mite be made to be 3-4 maybe even 5 man teams, were still waiting on Confirmation BUT we also want to balance the teams out via pace and Mentality so yano, things come into factor with so many Entries from us

I hear what your saying solar and I respect that but I'm keeping my comments to myself as they are not welcome by most so I will see u lot on the track and see u in American iron on Thursday mate.

Myself and my team-mates were very much looking forward to this event, we all put in a decent amount of time to test the cars and one of our drivers has put a lot of effort into making a paint. You have no idea how infuriating it is to then, after looking forward to this for about a month, be kicked off the grid for not supplying information that wasn't asked for. This is why we've been complaining so much, because this feels incredibly unfair against us and has given us an awful first impression of TORA. I think if anyone else was in our position they'd feel the exact same way, since every time we raise this issue it appears to be swept under the rug and the issue of 3 lobbies gets debated instead.

Honestly, we'd been told before by others who've been here not to bother with this, and I can see why now.

StaticSh33p wrote:Myself and my team-mates were very much looking forward to this event, we all put in a decent amount of time to test the cars and one of our drivers has put a lot of effort into making a paint. You have no idea how infuriating it is to then, after looking forward to this for about a month, be kicked off the grid for not supplying information that wasn't asked for. This is why we've been complaining so much, because this feels incredibly unfair against us and has given us an awful first impression of TORA. I think if anyone else was in our position they'd feel the exact same way, since every time we raise this issue it appears to be swept under the rug and the issue of 3 lobbies gets debated instead.

Honestly, we'd been told before by others who've been here not to bother with this, and I can see why now.

dude similar situation has happened to everyone on atleast once on TORA yes its a kick in the Nads a really bad Kick there, but yano, its 1 of them things, i suggest taking it on the Chin, maybe try and see if theres any other teams on the list you believe you can help and ask for a Collaboration yes a Collab can happen HCR and LMR have done it before we did it for Daytona with myself,Barker,HCR TJSteel and LMR Manthey in the team, if ya know anyone or generally feel you can give something to there Team for the Series, ask away, yes some of your people may not get drives but thats the best i Advice i can offer atm :/

I just read through from page 3. And... Holy crap.

Sorry to those that didn't make it. It sucks. Hopefully everyone can find decent racing to compete in until Round 3. Or, spend way too much time gaining skills in Rocket League.

I am available if the staff need an extra hand for timekeeping, hosting, sending out messages, or updating docs.

Sigh, it never ends...

Most of what needs to be addressed can be seen in Chaddy's post here.

FranchittiFan wrote:Teams from Daytona were given 1st chance to come back for Sebring

some 8-11 (not sure of the actual number) chose not to do come back creating space for new entries.

Those new entries were allowed to enter at a certain time, with a 1st come 1st served chance of making the max of 40 entries overall.

Teams are allowed to be made of 2-5 drivers so if a team wishes to run 2 drivers they have every right to do so.

Please stop blaming the 'big' teams, they have done nothing wrong, what happened is alot of teams tired to get into only 8-11 spaces and sadly not everyone got in.

It was stated in the rules that teams for Daytona were granted precedence over newcomers for Sebring registration. Whatever spaces remained were given to new teams on a first come, first serve basis, which was also stated in the rules. I'm surprised this is eluding anyone considering that your entry required that every driver reads and understands the rules...

A team is composed of two or more drivers, so any team that meets the registration quota and/or deadline is in to race, and any team that misses it isn't. It's not unfair, and it's not political. It was guaranteed to be a tight registration process, so anyone who was serious about registering for the race should have been online with a post ready to submit as soon as the registration opened. The teams that did so are racing, and the teams that didn't missed out. Th early bird gets the worm - it doesn't get any simpler than that.

Now, onto a different point...

FranchittiFan wrote:Moving to 3 lobbies is a very big ask and after issues at Daytona we have chosen to stay with 2 lobbies for Sebring.

For the future who knows, but for now its 2.

These issues at Daytona were never issues of the past. I think we went as far back as H lobby for some events back in the day, so it shouldn't be even remotely difficult to handle a C lobby now.

The process for collecting data seems flawed. It isn't all that difficult to get a batch of numbers and insert them into a spreadsheet. With some basic Excel techniques like cell referencing, a spreadsheet can calculate literally every number needed to display live timing in a matter of minutes. Relaying the information to one or two people working the docs at a time would get the data sorted for A-C lobbies in no time if the spreadsheet is set up correctly. If anyone wants to know more about cell referencing or easier techniques on how to handle the data, feel free to shoot me a PM.

LMR Harmonic wrote:The process for collecting data seems flawed. It isn't all that difficult to get a batch of numbers and insert them into a spreadsheet. With some basic Excel techniques like cell referencing, a spreadsheet can calculate literally every number needed to display live timing in a matter of minutes. Relaying the information to one or two people working the docs at a time would get the data sorted for A-C lobbies in no time if the spreadsheet is set up correctly. If anyone wants to know more about cell referencing or easier techniques on how to handle the data, feel free to shoot me a PM.

My doc actually does all that, I spent a couple of days perfecting it and most formula's for this are multiple lines long using nested if's, iserrors, vlookups, counts, sums to do the miles / ft conversions, ranks to auto sort into lobbies, filters to split the scoring between classes as they're scored independently, sorts for the standings pages so its automatically shown in order of total distance. I honestly think I have literally everything covered to make it as simple as possible, I even locked everything down so that only the cells that needed to be modified can be touched and the formula's can't be broken.

All that does need to be entered is the guy in 1st total miles, everyone else's distance from 1st in ft, then the distance to 2nd after move to next mile marker.

Unfortunately I don't have enough people with spreadsheet skills that can help so the stress of the docs mean I spend most time trying to get results to me so i can enter them. I'd quite happily teach anyone with the confidence to update things how to update my docs. It really isn't that hard, I've offered this before but the community didn't respond, if you do want to help me, send me a PM, you've probably seen that most docs look the same now and that's because I make most of them so once you understand 1, you'll understand them all.

The decision for not running in 3 lobbies was the fact that the team seemed to struggle as it was with only 2 lobbies so moving to something bigger I feel I'd be shooting ourselves in the foot. We'll see what happens at Sebring, if we have enough support from the community who knows, we may be able to expand the lobby count for the rest of the season, but I'll only feel safe trying this if Sebring runs to perfection at 2 lobbies.

I've seen the docs and they do work quite well. It's just weird that the data tends to get so far behind when you've laid everything out so well, but that's probably from communication delay on getting the data from the lobby to staff. We should be capable of doing this quite easily by now, but the only feasible option is to run things at the current capacity, I suppose.

Unfortunately it is, i'd love to have every member in the forum racing to be honest, but that would never happen. We have to use our available resources as best as possible, and unfortunately that only covers 2 lobbies.

People mention that there used to be huge lobbies ran in the past? We're not in the past, I've only been staff for a couple of month and only now do I see how hard it is behind the scenes.

I've taken peoples feedback and implemented it where possible, so I just hope now that I'm running TEC I can run these lobbies as smooth as possible and hope I don't let you guys down.

If you need any help just ask I own my own software analysis company so any thing needed on a software basis I can help with just PM me all you have to do is ask

I would suggest moving forward with 2 lobbies, getting to grips with the agenda and processes and maybe for events after Sebring it could be a consideration. Given how Daytona went, I think it is smart to not over exert yourself given some circumstances.

I can help on the day. PM me if you need it.

I thought Daytona went well, all things considered. Very few TORA events start on-time, very few TORA events run without lagouts or controversy, and the only major problems anyone had after the race were isolated host failures (lack of invites / invite system working) or Stewards results (again, every TORA event has at least one).

I would have liked to see at least 1 more lobby opened up to get more people in, as I love giving more than 7-8 teams a chance to join in. I can understand the reasoning/logic against it, but I really don't think Daytona ran anywhere near poorly.

Just a thought, and it may be not be a viable solution for Sebring as it wasn't utilized at Daytona, but why not let all of the teams that registered qualify (reserves included) and have the fastest 40 teams in the race? That would seem to be the most sportsmanlike way to handle it.

Whole new can of worms to deal with there. A good chunk of TORA is its appeal to the "gentlemen drivers" of the community. Doing it that way alienates that subgroup as well.



I think it's worth noting, everyone, that this is a fairly new problem for TORA to have. While we did have 4 lobbies in the TEC as early as 2013, it was on Forza 4 with much simpler mechanics in both game and website than we have now in 2016. Notably, there was the common practices of "temporary TORA marshals" where the website would approach random people who are fairly established on the website and ask if they could host. While this practice was sufficient, it was also a bit of a pain because protocol wasn't always established for these temporary hosts. This was also back when there were 4 lobbies of 13-15, not 4 lobbies of 20-23.

While I despise the fact that anyone's turned away, and if I was affected I'd have been very upset, it wouldn't be feasible at this time to accommodate everyone. Maybe if we start throwing potential hosts through a sort of "TORA boot camp" to teach people proper techniques, we can get something organized for Round 3. As of now, though, we don't have an easy method of getting 80 teams (300+ people!) organized for a race. That said, it will be addressed in the future, I'm sure of it.