TORA MSA GT World Championship 2013 - General Discussion

3mins to go, lets see what all this phaffing about has shaped its self into lol

Just to be clear are we posting in this thread ( http://forums.theonlineracingassociation.com/t8820-tora-msa-gt-sprint-series-entry-form )

and filling in this form

TORA MSA GT Sprint Series - Entry Form

Team Name : [team name]
Car Choice : [Make - Model]
Driver 1 Gamertag : [driver 1 gamertag]
Driver 1 TORA Race Number : [driver 1 TORA race number]
Driver 2 Gamertag : [driver 2 gamertag]
Driver 2 TORA Race Number : [driver 2 TORA race number]
Driver 3 Gamertag : [driver 3 gamertag]
Driver 3 TORA Race Number : [driver 3 TORA race number]
Driver 4 Gamertag : [driver 4 gamertag]
Driver 4 TORA Race Number : [driver 4 TORA race number]

haha we got what we wanted!!! HR for the WIN!!

CMGraphix wrote:I posted my findings before season 9 and F4H MOPAR001, F4H Koenigsegg, lfcnicklfc, WCM Outlaw all congratulated me on all the hard work and testing that went into the carlist, and throughout the season, I heard from so many people including CQR how close the cars are.

Indeed, I congratulated you on all the hard work and testing that went into the carlist. I know how much time goes into it. I tested 140+ cars on my own for my own series at VM. And I've done countless of car balancing for other series', so I definately know what you're talking about it. But I can't remember ever saying that the GT9 cars were balanced.

Lots of F4H were really excited before GT9 started. They like GT cars (which in stock form are already much better balanced than the GT8 cars), they liked the real prizes you could win and they like the videos, spotter guide etc. etc. We picked cars that we like. Some top drivers from F4H and on FM4 in their Corvette were not even close to the top times in qualifying, for example. If you're already so far behind in the first few rounds as a top driver, then it's not fun to continue. Because you won't win the championship and thus won't win the real prizes.

Cars in GT9 were, and still are, unbalanced. All of us are not suddenly saying this because of a few PI changes for GT10, they were already unbalanced in GT9. I know this is not N8, but I'll use it as an example. Some F4H teams didn't go full attack at qualifying. F4H Hamilton for example could have gone 4 seconds quicker if he wanted to. He didn't do this because TORA has the reputation to nerve or upgrade cars at the very very very last minute or even worse, during the season. We really dislike this at F4H. Some of us are really mad about it. We kept it private, because some feel they are disrespected by members on this site or don't like the attitude from others. Lots of F4H just don't care participating anymore. I just don't understand why cars are being changed at the very last minute or when the season is already underway. To me it looks like TORA is saying: "We're sorry drivers, we f*cked up, but let's f*ck the people up even more with adjusting lots of cars. Or just change cars mid-season, but here are some penalty points because we f*cked up your first car choice." It is not professional when you change everything. It looks like TORA doesn't support their own ideas.

It is very important to listen to the community. But don't change cars at the very last minute and/or mid-season. All cars and builds should be final before the series is officially launched. All cars should be properly tested before the launch. When I balance my cars, I do it with stock tune, not stock build, stock tune (only tune final gear if the straight is too long for the BMW Z4 for example). The list you provide should be balanced, cars should be within half a second of each other at every circuit, except long tracks, and should be within 3 or 2 tenths of each other on average. How drivers and teams tune their car is up to them. Everyone likes something else from their tune. So you shouldn't try to balance cars with tunes on it. If it is found there are still some unsimilarities (when arguments are made why), be the first one to admit it. But don't change the build immediately. Change it for the next series. Have consistency. Drivers then know what they can expect. It is up to them to decide what they will do. But PLEASEEEEEEE, have cars properly tested before the series is officially launched.

Hailfire97x wrote:But if its mostly just CQR and F4H saying "bend to our desires or we leave," why let them have the muscle to do it?

We don't want to bend it to our desires. We want a balanced car list for everyone. Perhaps for the mid-field drivers (no disrespect) it doesn't mean a lot. But when you can win real prizes, the top drivers want an equal chance, no matter what car they are using. And to be clear, F4H left the GT9 Series very early, without complaining at this forum. We did complain on our own forum in private.

Thom, from me personally I fully respect your honesty. The GT3 carlist is fixed now for the whole 2 seasons. Sprint and Enduro.

GT4 is in its final stages of finalisation. I admit that I had made mistakes within this group and thank those helping to get things in much better order. Decision on this group will be made by the end of the weekend at the latest.

Just out of curiosity, how is a series with an open build policy tested? Is every major combination of build (wide front tyres, narrow fronts and light rims etc.) tried out and the fastest compared etc.?

I'm trying to balance out GT cars myself (for a racing league elsewhere) and I'm just wondering what the approach for S9 was (feel free to PM if you wish).

We had a mini series of 6 or so rounds, where I took top and average laptimes for every car, as well as setting imaginary 5 imaginary speed traps (top speed on straights, up hills, tight corners, fast sweepers on every track and took both top and averages of them. I then marked braking points at 3 spots across each of the 6 circuits to get averages there. The 6 tracks were split to low downforce prefereable, mid and high downforce so I could try and get an wide spectrum of results.

All of these were then compared with one another, and yes there were differences between cars, in terms of some cars are quick in a straightline, and the others are quick on twisty tracks. Over the course of the season, it worked out pretty dead on even.

After season 9s season, race condition habits and strengths came into play which were noted and recorded. Comments from drivers were taken and absorbed, and these fueled the minor changes for season 10.

I really must say I was not amused by taking 1 pi of the SLS because CRA wanted for a while to go for the SLS and sponsorship paint( OZ rim)was already done....
But we will handle it, no problem.
I am suprised that some cars who were not taken in S9 now fully is taken ( AMR).
No fingers pointing, just a remark.
I have put an sentence that we are doing both series, so we do not have to register on the 22th?
I will try in 2013 not too smash cars in the back by missing braking points.....
I think and hope it will be a very exiting championship. You Tora guys did 1 hell of a job!
Iam looking forward to this!

Shizac! Missed Leeds beat Ipswich whilst I was reding this. Motorsport, whether it's virtual or real, has the same effect as golf; you spend a lot of your time endlessly chasing perfection. It's a disease Jeremy Clarkson called 'Ringworm'. And some guys here have it really bad...

CRA Adder wrote:I am suprised that some cars who were not taken in S9 now fully is taken ( AMR).

This is not an accident, and it's not car performance related. We were moving to this car no matter what for this season. Watch this space!!

Watch it indeed!

Just watch....

Total respect and agreement for Koenigsegg's post, it sums up exactly CQR's position and was very well written (your English is amazing Thom!). When we (CQR) sign up for a series, we agree to the rules and car PI's, and as a team its totally unprofessional to then question those during the season, hence why we has never raised any issue with the cars in S9, we shut up and got on with it anyway and most of us continued to race, despite being unhappy with the car balancing. F4H chose to withdraw, in a respectful way and I admire that. The alternative, of continually complaining about imbalances while participating in a series we'd agreed to race in, is improper and disrespectful to the staff and fellow drivers who also signed up to the same rules, and is something we refuse to do. The time to have these discussions is after the season has finished, but due to the overlap between the end of S9 and sign ups for S10, this has not been possible and I think took the organisers by surprise as they were unaware of the concerns of many current and former competitors.

Bli33ard wrote:Just watch....

Yes..... watch indeed

So an Aston Martin of our choice is the winners prize for season 10

BG Hainesy wrote:So an Aston Martin of our choice is the winners prize for season 10

I'm definitely cheating in that case then!

I didn't withdraw, just got a new job that required me to work on the weekends. I really wanted to compete and hoping my scheadule will be changed to allow me to race in this series.

A lot of Z4's and Jaguars picked so far though.

CQR MAGiC wrote:Total respect and agreement for Koenigsegg's post, it sums up exactly CQR's position and was very well written (your English is amazing Thom!).

Thanks Mark! I usually have problems with expressing myself in English. So this is great to hear.

F4H Senna wrote:I didn't withdraw, just got a new job that required me to work on the weekends. I really wanted to compete and hoping my scheadule will be changed to allow me to race in this series.

A lot of Z4's and Jaguars picked so far though.

Yet virtually no Ferraris.

CQR HABURi wrote:

F4H Senna wrote:I didn't withdraw, just got a new job that required me to work on the weekends. I really wanted to compete and hoping my scheadule will be changed to allow me to race in this series.

A lot of Z4's and Jaguars picked so far though.

Yet virtually no Ferraris.