TORA MSA GT World Championship 2013 - General Discussion

There is a simple formula at play that doesn't look good, which I guess is what Roadrunner's pointing out:

GT1 car in a GT3 class being outrageously-competitive

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Almost all high-ranking TORA staff are in on the VAMR deal

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A lot of retweets and love of the VAMR private posts (Facebook, Twitter, etc)

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One skeptical Canadian, probably voicing for all of XPR, as well as a few other people who have said something to him who aren't rushing in here for fear of their image.

Ill be honest and say in my view the BMW is the best car.

Hailfire97x wrote:There is a simple formula at play that doesn't look good, which I guess is what Roadrunner's pointing out:

GT1 car in a GT3 class being outrageously-competitive

+

Almost all high-ranking TORA staff are in on the VAMR deal

+

A lot of retweets and love of the VAMR private posts (Facebook, Twitter, etc)

=

One skeptical Canadian, probably voicing for all of XPR, as well as a few other people who have said something to him who aren't rushing in here for fear of their image.

I wouldn't go so far to say that, as non-XPR members have said the same thing to me. But only a few XPR members have said it too, not the whole club, as most of them could care less.

The Jag wasn't even that competitive in S9, it's just that the likes of Magic and Daniel worked their butts off to make it as quick as they could, and it never was the fastest car after all that either.

Your all complaining about the Aston (witch at points in the season did look like it was overpowered, but the reason it came across like that is because they had good tuners and drivers who put in the hours to tune it and drive it and stuff) but what about the McLaren hey? If you want my view on the McLaren I feel that it is unfairly restricted but I haven't complained in public, I have complained about it in private, and I have driven my butt off in all the races to do well in it, but this is my opinion.

Note: The restrictor on the Mclaren is a bit big is what im getting at. I would like to see a little bit of the restrictor taken off it but not completetly as this is not fair. I think 15% is a bit unfair, this is the point im trying to make.

Sorry if anyone is offened as I said this is my opinion and I am aware that this may not sit well on other people, so sorry in advance but I need to say it

CQR HABURi wrote:The Jag wasn't even that competitive in S9, it's just that the likes of Magic and Daniel worked their butts off to make it as quick as they could, and it never was the fastest car after all that either.

This is missed a lot, how hard some people work to get thier cars and themselves to be so high up on the time sheets.
If there is one thing I learned last year, the more you win the more poeple begin to think its the car and not the drivers.

to be clear I have not said anything about the car its self. This was my concern that TORA has become biased to AMR, in a series that features multiple other cars.

It's fine that they have a team that is linked to them but when TORA is adv'ing it more than what was done for the jags and lambos of seasons past, it looks odd.

But that team that has a bunch of staff in them is generally seen as "TORA's team" and therefore "TORA=AMR". People can/are getting bad vibes from it.

I also think track selection is an important factor.

The only staff members in VAMR are Matt and Chris!

CQR Franchitti wrote:The only staff members in VAMR are Matt and Chris!

Wouldn't a Race Steward be considered a staff member? I know race marshals are volunteers.

CQR Franchitti wrote:The only staff members in VAMR are Matt and Chris!

Wouldn't a Race Steward be considered a staff member? I know race marshals are volunteers.

if you wanted it to be that way, it would make only 3 of 8 cars have TORA 'staff' members.

BG Wumba wrote:I also think track selection is an important factor.

also a key factor for another topic I've been told that the TORA staff are looking into fixing, as the majority of the tracks this season were power tracks

Richy59 wrote:We left the AMR One out because it would be at Le Mans and we know what happened last year.

I'm just going to revisit this for a second:

You guys still don't think it was because the car was driven by Drake Hellspawn? The same Drake Hellspawn who (with Alex P and The Bulin Wall5) was dominant at Sebring? Or was very quick at Nurburgring?

Will my Peugeot be "revisited" before Le Mans when we find out that the three can post superhuman times there again?

Hailfire97x wrote:

Richy59 wrote:We left the AMR One out because it would be at Le Mans and we know what happened last year.

I'm just going to revisit this for a second:

You guys still don't think it was because the car was driven by Drake Hellspawn? The same Drake Hellspawn who (with Alex P and The Bulin Wall5) was dominant at Sebring? Or was very quick at Nurburgring?

Will my Peugeot be "revisited" before Le Mans when we find out that the three can post superhuman times there again?

+100000 Bulin will grab pole 10000% gauranteed

No it won't be, but we just thought it was easier to leave one car out for simplicity. It may be back for ISCC

Hailfire97x wrote:

Richy59 wrote:We left the AMR One out because it would be at Le Mans and we know what happened last year.

I'm just going to revisit this for a second:

You guys still don't think it was because the car was driven by Drake Hellspawn? The same Drake Hellspawn who (with Alex P and The Bulin Wall5) was dominant at Sebring? Or was very quick at Nurburgring?

Will my Peugeot be "revisited" before Le Mans when we find out that the three can post superhuman times there again?

Nope, the difference with the AMR-One was the car had the best overall top speed and the best handling by far. Was hitting high 18s with it and only could get a 21 flat in the Acura.

Well as a CQR member I can say our target is complete.

We looked into all the moaning about cars we choose and decided before the VAMR deal was announced that we would choose the Aston everyone moaned like hell about in S9. It got changed early on in the season to bring it upto the pace but it all honesty it was still not that far off. We decided to choose a car that everyone had wrote off same with Lambo and McLaren. The Jag in S9 was a dog to drive but Mark and Dan again put in hundreds of laps to get it were it is.

We were never part of any test team for GT's so we had same time frame as everyone else to choose. TORA asked if anyone wanted to run in VAMR Aston when they got it so two of our quickest drivers took up the offer as they wanted to run a aston anyway.

This is becoming repetitive every season that driver talent and effort gets over looked why people claim it must be fixed.

TORA are happy they got a VAMR deal and that is why they ran it, it had possibly the slowest top end of all cars in the list just it got the quicker. Hell I outran Dan in testing down the Catalyuna straight in a McLaren which is slow as hell out of corners. If TORA want to put more coverage of a car because thats there sponsor fair play to them I would to. If CQR had a official team sponsor us you wouldnt see us posting everything to do with Ferrari if it was McLaren. TORA is not a team so there only place to show off there hard work with a big deal is in this championship, there not like the SRT deal.

I hear you on the Jag, I drove it for the past sprint season, and even with CQR tunes that were provided to the team I was a part of (X continental racing), and we have still struggled to be fully on the pace.

Much respect to you guys and the work you put in. I have driven the Aston around Sebring with resrictions/builds applied and the car is by no means quick out of the box. which is probably the reason why only 2 teams seleted it this season?

Bandit1097 wrote:The Aston Martin is fast this season because CQR runs it and we all know that they are probably the fastest guys currently on TORA. They probably made the Jaguar look like a really good car last season.

Thanks Bandit, I know I'm biased, but I completely agree with you on that!

I think people are looking at recent results too much and being a bit short-sighted - earlier in the season everyone wanted the Lambo when there were 15 Lambo's in the A & B lobby, then everyone wanted the Z4 (I think Box quit because he couldn't keep up with it), and now it's the Aston that's too fast. The truth is the 5 leading cars that have been raced by title/race-win contenders (Lambo, Z4, Aston, Ferrari & Audi) have all been up there with the best cars at some point throughout the season. The difference is that Daniel in particular has out-performed the car and picked up wins where others cars should have won - Road America, the 2 ONR Z4's were romping away until they lagged smashed each other out of the race, handing 2 wins to Daniel's Aston. At Laguna I put the Lambo on pole and then messed up Superpole and started at the back, again Daniel picked up 2 wins on a track where the Lambo should have won both races.

Based on qualifying/superpole/race laptimes:

Track - Best car / Race Win
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Sunset - Audi / Ferrari
Catalunya - Lambo / Lambo
Suzuka - Z4 / Z4
Motegi - Aston / Aston
Hockenheim - Z4 / Z4
Road America - Z4 / Aston
Nurburgring - Aston / Audi
Sebring - Aston / Aston
Laguna - Lambo / Aston
Silverstone - ? / ?

And that's ignoring all the 'other' cars that could also have been in contention, but without top teams/drivers in those cars any assumptions would be just that, assumptions, but I know the Merc, Corvette and Jag were capable of podiums and possibly race wins in the right circumstances too. Also, as the season has progressed and more top line drivers such as Box, ONR, VVV, TG have dropped out, that has flattered the results of others cars (as happened last season with the Jag), so we have to be careful and look at the season as a whole, and I can't honestly say that there's much to choose between the Aston, Z4, Lambo, Ferrari and Audi, from a championship perspective. The fact that CQR are 1-2-3-4-5 in the championship with 3 different cars proves that - I also think that it doesn't matter which one of those 5 cars Daniel was in, he'd still be leading the championship.

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Getting back to Roadrunner's (sorry for my earlier mistake) original point about VAMR getting undue prominence - well last season Box got huge amounts of coverage for his wins and championship, so why SHOULDN'T the VAMR drivers get the same this season? Just because they're in a car/team that has some affiliation with TORA makes no difference - the Cyber Racing Aston are run as 'factory CQR cars' anyway, built, tuned and raced by CQR's best drivers. VAMR did the smart thing in getting CQR drivers and tuners as technical partners, and without it may not have even won any races this season. CQR wanted to enter a full factory CQR Aston team anyway, but there weren't enough cars available, so being technical partners with VAMR was the best solution - had there been enough cars, I'm sure CQR would be taking the heat now for 'over-exposure' or 'having the best car again'. Daniel's won GT races in every GT car he's raced (Jag, Merc, Aston), that's the common factor here. If XPR had been asked to be technical partners with VAMR and an XPR driver was leading the championship, they would be getting the same coverage now too (provided the results had been there). So I see nothing wrong in TORA, VAMR, CQR or anyone supporting their drivers and teams, the more promotion and coverage the better!

^^^ +1

Also heads up Simon has stepped down from staff and GT head.

We will be looking internally and externally for a GT head in the future.

Something off this topic.

My Dad asks (yes my dad) If this weekends race will be streamed Live.
As he enjoys listen and watching the action on TORA and thinks quite alot of the time its better than the crap you get on motors TV or Speed.

Unfortunately, I don't think it will be. I'm away and Stan's car dis on the blink, whilst Chris will be competing.

Shame to hear Simon had stepped down, he has done a cracking job on the GT championship for TORA over the years! and I hope I speak for alot of us when I say he shall be missed as a staff member.

CQR Franchitti wrote:Shame to hear Simon had stepped down, he has done a cracking job on the GT championship for TORA over the years! and I hope I speak for alot of us when I say he shall be missed as a staff member.

He stepped down day 1 of GT's, nothing untoward between Simon & Staff, Simon made this request him self and will be missed.

GT will return in the future and will be replacing a GT head but not for a while yet