MSA TORA GT World Championship - Results & Standings

Who says the "missing lap" is from the end of the race? Technically he started later so it's could just as easily be interpreted as an opening "fresh tyre" lap he loses/gains. Whatever happens someone will always complain because yes it is a bit convoluted, but it's the best we can do. How would you quantify the lap time if not in relation to the qualifying lap?

Maybe a solution would be to add 5/6/7 seconds on to their qually lap to calculate the extra lap, because everyone is on tyres that are about to fall off and are never going to pull out a qually time.

So add an arbitrary number on? I'm not comfortable with doing that.

But an arbitrary number is added to each lobby ie 4 seconds

Problem with adding an arbitrary number is everyone has different level of worn tyres depending on their own strategy - my tyres for example were still in tip-top shape at the end of the race and so was still running fast lap times, as were people who went for 4 stop strategies in this race. It is very unlucky how the numbers fell for you this time Hainsey, you drove a superb race and had a great strategy.

He couldn't have that extra laptime on a fresh tyre lap because that would involve making another pit stop.

Everyone runs to the 1:45.00 timer. If someone is in the situation whereby they would get an extra lap in, it would be at the end of their last stint before the clock expired and not when they would have somehow fitted an extra set of new tyres.

Almost quite stunned that I'm leading the whole Endurance Championship after 2 rounds.

BG Cowboy wrote:He couldn't have that extra laptime on a fresh tyre lap because that would involve making another pit stop

Only people who ran a 3 stop race were in that situation - Hainsey's last lap was a 2m04 due to the worn tyres (15:17 penultimate lap, 13:13 race finish). Drivers who chose to 4-stop would still had fresh enough tyres left at the end to run normal race times (i.e. a 1m59 without worn tyres), so it wouldn't be fair to add an arbitrary number on to their projected lap time either because that would be just an assumption about the tyre wear of that car.

Congrats Haburi

Chaddy did a 3 stopper as well so I'm told, 70%+ tyre wear. The only solution is standing starts so someone else doesn't get shafted. I understand that this result can't be changed but that would solve that particular problem in future races.

That is unlucky Hainsey cos with 80% wear it wouldn't be possible to do anywhere near a 1:59, so the system worked in Chaddy's favour there. Starting all the races at the right race time would be the best solution - we started a fraction of a second past the target time of 3:00 (less than 1 second behind it), but very tricky to get them all the same!

CQR MAGiC wrote:That is unlucky Hainsey cos with 80% wear it wouldn't be possible to do anywhere near a 1:59, so the system worked in Chaddy's favour there. Starting all the races at the right race time would be the best solution - we started a fraction of a second past the target time of 3:00 (less than 1 second behind it), but very tricky to get them all the same!

Totally agree, just basic common sense to add on an arbitrary number that is used in settling times between lobbies, someone tell me WHY this can't work?

Or rather than stopping the race at 1h45, the lobby host adds 1h45 to the whatever time the race actually starts, so no need to check the replays and add/subtract a lobby offset afterwards. So if the race starts at 1h57m45, you finish 1h45 mins later at 12m45s, that way every lobby has the same amount of 'green flag' time and no need to add/subtract times and the 'adding a qualifying time' issue goes away too.

CQR MAGiC wrote:Or rather than stopping the race at 1h45, the lobby host adds 1h45 to the whatever time the race actually starts, so no need to check the replays and add/subtract a lobby offset afterwards. So if the race starts at 1h57m45, you finish 1h45 mins later at 12m45s, that way every lobby has the same amount of 'green flag' time and no need to add/subtract times and the 'adding a qualifying time' issue goes away too.

Perfect, problem solved. +1

Thanks lol Wish I'd thought of it BEFORE tonight's race, sorry Hainsey

Because it's too difficult (impossible) to run multiple lobbies and do times that are accurate. I understand the series and that's what everyone signed up for going in. I really don't think lobbies should compete between each other. One "lucky" instance is too many and everyone here has alluded to the fact that it is a guessing game at times.

Races should be settled on the track. Chaddy could have very well been behind him and unable to make a pass or could have pressured you into a mistake. No one will ever know, he passed you by not racing you.

Again, that is what we signed up for when entering and as Chis said if they don't allow 100 people lobbies it won't change. I'd never look forward to any more than we already have though.

Just an observation, hopefully I explained it okay.

If Chaddy had a random 16secs and gained n extra lap, then what about Bullet? As he finished less than 16s behind him... I thought. However Chaddy did a 3 stop and even said he was 80% wear crossing the line.

In the end, lucky deal. But I agree with Magic, +1

Bullet's time after adjustment was 1:45:00!

I like Mark's suggestion of adding 1h45 to the start time, and you're right, that's a much better solution in my book, however that does add another layer of "distraction from racing" for the host, a) to calculate the race end time, and b) to remember and call that at the end of the race.

XPR Soundwave wrote:If Chaddy had a random 16secs and gained n extra lap, then what about Bullet? As he finished less than 16s behind him... I thought. However Chaddy did a 3 stop and even said he was 80% wear crossing the line.

In the end, lucky deal. But I agree with Magic, +1

So on that extra lap he would not have done a qualifying time on 80%, where it falls off the cliff and you lose 5secs immediately and then 7 secs, the whole 'he could have had an extra lap on fresh tyres' is negated due to the fact he did 3 stops, so just giving a 4 sec penalty here would be kind to say the least, to give him a qualifying time is ridiculous

I finished with 72% wear with a 3 stop race. Ill make a point that it seems everytime I do well drivers want the system changed

It happened with it LMPC class at Mugello and now it looks like that again.

My car was really fast last night and should have been in A lobby, on two of my Q laps I was 2 tenths up after 2 sectors, but I screwed up twice in the final sector, so I started in 2nd in lobby B.

Got a good start and almost passed Bullet before turn 1. Then after about 9-10 laps I passed him and very quickly gaped the rest of the cars. To say my car was say doing 2.04s on worn tires is wrong as I feel it more like 2.02s. Soundwave pitted about 3-4 laps before me at one stage and and closed the gap from 1,000ft to about 600ft. If hes on new tyres (and had a Q time of a mid 59) and only closed 400 ft theres no way I was say 4 secs a lap slower than him, its more like 1-2 secs.

issue is look if we had it our way we would run on a game which can handle 60 drivers in a lobby and make sure lobbies start exact same time of which you can do on certian pc games due to ai safety car driver etc

Chris suggestion like it when race starts race hosts work out when race finished or we have an aim start time ie 3 minutes all cars must be making it to pit staright etc race starts then etc

I love all the "head-scratching/it's a giant conspiracy against BG/favouritism towards FrachittiFan" style posts. It really isn't. It's a standardised way of calculating the results that I've always used, and it's how the chips fell on this occasion. The problem I have with adding some "random amount of time because player X would be on X amount of tyre wear" is that you can't standardise, or quantify it fairly.

I will look at the idea of using the start time plus 1h45 method for future events and series, but I don't see any reason to "change the rules" or more accurately, "change the method of calculation" now, part way into the series when I'd have to retrospectively recalculate the past races too, and redistribute points. Sorry, but that's not going to happen.

The only real way this is solved is for people not to race between lobbies. No matter what someone is going to feel like they are getting screwed. If you put the onus on the driver in qualifying they have no one to blame but themselves for doing poorly.

To be honest I don't know if Franchitti would have passed Hainsey and don't know if Hainsey would have messed up with him back there. No one knows. Franchitti has stated he had a lobby A car. If he has that good of a car and qualifies poorly then he isn't in as much traffic during the race as Hainsey may have been at the back. That is a huge advantage over an endurance race. I can assure you that if the top guy from Lobby A decided to sand bag and get in Lobby B that he'd make up well over 4 seconds running alone in the lobby below. He could probably make up 4 seconds in about 6-7 laps.

Too late now to change the rule but it isn't fair to either competitor.

Aero, I'm not arguing with you saying you should change now either. I think it's the opposite and something to look to for following seasons. You shouldn't get passed by a ghost car that you never got to see or race against. Once you qualify, your lobby is your lobby.

CQR Aero wrote:I love all the "head-scratching/it's a giant conspiracy against BG/favouritism towards FrachittiFan" style posts. It really isn't. It's a standardised way of calculating the results that I've always used, and it's how the chips fell on this occasion. The problem I have with adding some "random amount of time because player X would be on X amount of tyre wear" is that you can't standardise, or quantify it fairly.

I will look at the idea of using the start time plus 1h45 method for future events and series, but I don't see any reason to "change the rules" or more accurately, "change the method of calculation" now, part way into the series when I'd have to retrospectively recalculate the past races too, and redistribute points. Sorry, but that's not going to happen.

Ok I'm going to put this even simpler, he would NOT have done a 1:59 at all on 72% tyres plus, I would bet anything on that no matter how hard you try, you could not do it, that is the be all and end all of the point i'm trying to make, I know Hainesy finished ahead of Chaddy for sure, he would have been very close with Beanz but i'm not even going there...

To even suggest that we think it's a conspiracy is a bit ludicrous, i'm just pointing out the simple fact, to give him his quali time just defies the point of having drag tyres considered at all.

I believe alot of our racers race here because theres a chance they can beat the lobby ahead of them. I love the idea and as soon as I passed Bullet I knew there was a good chance of beating some lobby A guys.