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Sebring 12 Hours Race Day Thread

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Duke of Bruno
CQR Jono
Ianmr
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The Posimosh
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F4H Carrera
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Sebring 12 Hours Race Day Thread - Page 14 Empty Re: Sebring 12 Hours Race Day Thread

Post by CQR NEON Tue 12 Mar 2013 - 2:02

im not saying ban them from racing completely but unless they can improve there connection then they shouldn't be allowed to race as its not really fair on the rest of the racers.
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Post by theboomeranga Tue 12 Mar 2013 - 2:18

CQR NEON wrote:im not saying ban them from racing completely but unless they can improve there connection then they shouldn't be allowed to race as its not really fair on the rest of the racers.
that can also be reversed, some of us with bad connection (ie myself) that can't exactly fix the problem (ie myself) because they do not own the router or pay for it, or know the password, then not being able to race isn't fair on them.
trust me, if i was living on my own, paying for my own internet, i would have fixed it a LONG time ago. but unfortunately, at this point in time, (still being a minor) and living at home, it's out of my control.
and so because my internet it slow, and i do cause lag (as much as i do try and fix it) i shouldn't be able to race?
that's as fair for us, and us causing someone with a good connection to be lag bombed or lag out.

sorry if that sounds rude or narcissistic, not trying to be, just stating my point
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Post by CQR NEON Tue 12 Mar 2013 - 2:21

I see what your saying but if you where in the position of someone with good internet and you had someone lagging all over in front of you would you feel the same way as i do?
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Post by theboomeranga Tue 12 Mar 2013 - 2:25

yea, i would as well, and i understand what you're saying. but like was said earlier, just give them a wider birth than you usually would when overtaking them. and i know that doesn't solve everything, and is a bit of an inconvenience, but hey, you can only do what is allowed under the circumstances
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Post by Euphoric Blaze Tue 12 Mar 2013 - 2:29

Drake Hellspawn wrote:
Bandit1097 wrote:
TG Wormburner wrote:If you lag out you lag out. If you bring in a system someone will exploit it. I very well could have unplugged my console in the N8 and we would have won.

I'm pretty sure this should end the argument. +1

Depends on the system you implement. If you have some sort of formulaic prediction, then yes, that may have happened. But I restate my idea of running an extra stint, and taking the total minus the worst stint (Sebring 7 stints minus the worst stint; Le Mans 13 stints minus 1). You could also have the team(s) that could benefit the penalized; in that their fastest driver would be barred from partaking in this extra stint, but every other team could use their fastest driver.

I have to disagree with this Drake. Its a 12 hour endurance race for a reason. You have to be consistant and LUCKY enough to get through the 12 hours without any major incidents.

I understand where your coming from but lets say, you drove for 12 hours had only a minor accident but you were very quick and consistant and got a podium position. Then Someone else had a major accident in one stint. Really there chance of a podium (depending how everyone else got on) was gone. Which is fair tbh. It is an endurance race after all.

With your option, the one who drove for the 12 hours consistant and lucky enough would lose out because the extra stint would just be hotlapped and it would be unfair. Endurance races are not always won by the quickest but also by the consistant, lucky people out there.
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Post by The Posimosh Tue 12 Mar 2013 - 2:31

My car had the most to b!tch about regarding lag outs. We would have had the race in the bag had b lobby not split with 45 minutes to go. Considering that a majority of the evidence in our case says that it wasn't our driver's fault that he ended up in a lobby racing by himself (along with five other drivers at the same exact moment). In any case, if this little rant is all that comes from this incident, and none of my co-drivers have said anything about changing rules or results, then anyone else keeping their handbags ready to swing for more than a couple hours is a bit excessive...
(I keep telling myself) Life is not fair, you win some and lose more, effecting other folks doesn't make the situation any better. Discussing how to improve the situation can be beneficial but these conversations tend to devolve into the fore-mentioned handbag fight along with insults, absolution, and irrationality, especially when one or more of the parties is still seeing red.
This whole TORA "thing" is volunteer based and community run. Its as fair as can be, and if something is shown not to be, then prescriptions can be made in the suitable places. While hindsight is helpful when looking to make improvements in procedures and rules, there is a definite suceptability to over-react not realizing the unexpected consequences of said action. This can lead to an even more un-level, or loophole plagued rules base. Perhaps a discussion in the suitable place would be advised if there is an issue that needs to be addressed.


Last edited by LMR Posimosh on Tue 12 Mar 2013 - 2:32; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Texaspotatolord Tue 12 Mar 2013 - 2:32

Drake Hellspawn wrote:
In recent years there have not been nearly as many mechanical failures for the lead car(s) as there used to be. At Sebring, you have to go back to 2008 to find a dominant car faulted by mechanical failure. More recently, the 2010 Le Mans was the much more memorable mechanical failure(s), where all the Peugeot 908s detonated. With the reduction in horsepower, the mechanical stress on the transmission and engines has been greatly reduced, yet in Forza it is not a matter of if, but when because it's almost guaranteed that someone if not multiple people are going to get shafted by chance.
There's plenty of mechanical failures today. Corvette lost the lead in a few races because of weird stuff. Same with Muscle Milk, who could have one every race in ALMS were it not for reliability issues.


And I'm sorry but running 7 stints is just ridiculous. It's Twelve Hours of Sebring, if you want to run another stint then it would become the 14 Hours of Sebring. The race is about how well you can do in twelve hours, so the amount of time left for the race should be twelve hours.

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Post by F4H Drake Tue 12 Mar 2013 - 2:42

Midgetexpress wrote:Electrical failure. 'Nuff said.

Also, this is a 12hour race NOT seven 2 hour stints. As has been said before, your idea is turning the race into a championship, not an endurance race. You are taking away from everything that is great about it. You will totally change the mentality of the racing as well and I foresee more crashes. I am honestly not trying to be rude but you seem to have utterly failed to grasp endurance racing.

No you're not rude, just insulting.

Bandit1097 wrote:
I wouldn't say forbid the ultra laggers from racing, but at least tell them to give other drivers more space than usual when either passing them or being passed by another driver.

Nah, have the ultra laggers run the most defensive line possible. Why not? It's endurance racing, as a RoadRunner has stated multiple times "[Censored] happens". Deal with it. I know that in the mornings my connection is not as strong as it normally is, and I try to be extra courteous, but seeing as everyone is so willing to just deal with it, I should not go out of my way anymore. I'll just run my race and if someone I'm passing gets lag bombed, oh well. Tough luck, it's racing.

You say I've missed the point of endurance racing, but you've missed the point of this topic. The idea is to create a more enjoyable racing environment without causing inadvertent stresses or advantages/disadvantages. It it not my intent to influence this series and its races negatively, but your arguments, if they can be called as such, offer no counter proposals and continue to highlight the same flaws, that exist even if any sort "lag out contingency" were to be implemented. Rather than flat out saying I'm wrong, your energy would be better spent in trying to find a way to take advantage, or finding a disadvantage, of the idea(s) proposed. Not only would it be constructive, but it would also solidify your point that the current way is better.

To have it all in one place, my idea stands at: An extra stint would be tacked on, most likely just before the final stint. All teams would partake in this stint. Teams that have lagged out prior to this stint, or had major accidents would not be allowed to have their fastest driver drive this stint. Teams that have not had a lag out or major crash, would be allowed to have their fastest driver. If this extra stint was faster than any of the previous stints, excluding the rolling start stint, than it would replace that stint on the timing sheets.

Furthermore, the concept of endurance racing has been changing since it first started, and it will continue to change. The rules for 2014 are mighty interesting, but 'inside experts' claim maximum horsepower figures just above 400 hp, further diminishing the mechanical stresses on internal components, and the actual endurance focus on the machines. The endurance aspect has shifted to those driving and the mechanics. There is so much emphasis now on doing long multiple stints, and getting high fuel mileage and good tyre wear rather than just going for outright speed.

With this trend, having this extra stint I believe adds to the endurance of the event. Considering that you would most likely want your fastest driver in this stint, the chances would be he has already done a considerable amount of time in the car, and running this extra stint may not be as beneficial as running a different driver. This stint is supposed to be treated as a normal stint, so all the dangers still apply from all the previous stints. It's mainly a second chance opportunity and there is always the possibility that this stint would not affect the standing as at all. Yet the opposite is true, in where the standing would be altered by massive margins, considering the amount of teams that could improve on a previous stint with this extra stint.

Note: If my grammar failed at some point I apologize. My eyes sting after my drive home through a down pour with badly aligned front headlights, and people driving without their lights on at all.
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Post by F4H Drake Tue 12 Mar 2013 - 2:46

Texaspotatolord wrote:
There's plenty of mechanical failures today. Corvette lost the lead in a few races because of weird stuff. Same with Muscle Milk, who could have one every race in ALMS were it not for reliability issues.

And I'm sorry but running 7 stints is just ridiculous. It's Twelve Hours of Sebring, if you want to run another stint then it would become the 14 Hours of Sebring. The race is about how well you can do in twelve hours, so the amount of time left for the race should be twelve hours.

What's wrong with 7 stints? It's just more endurance for your racing. That is true, and I'm sorry I didn't make it clear, my focus was on Sebring and Le Mans, tracks that TORA runs. I don't know too much about Britcar and the N24 to makes comments on mechanical failures. But as a whole, the amount of cars finishing races has risen dramatically risen from just a decade ago.
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Post by TG Wormburner Tue 12 Mar 2013 - 2:57

Drake if you drop a stint then there is no point in having an anchor team. If my team is winning at the end of stint "Y" and only stint "Z" remains there is no way I'm sitting there for 2 hours racing in a pointless exhibition. Pretty sure in the Sebring race after the second to last stint this could have happened. Pretty dumb to have the 12 hours of Sebring winner to only do 10 hours because of a rule and a lot of teams once it's "over" aren't going to race either. It defeats the entire purpose of racing.

What happens in this if three teams actually do finish all stints and after the drop rounds your winning team that actually won the twelve hours finished 3rd in the 10 hours? The anger would be overwhelming and TORA staff would have a [Censored] storm on their hands.

A race, a race series, etc should be won on the track. Not through some manufactured rule that benefits people that don't finish or don't run a good race.

The negative now is lagging out. The negatives for the systems brought up thus far are plentiful and the results will likely end up "cheaper" than they would right now.

Too much is being said and too much is being looked over. XBR Mad Dog held a continuous connection for over 10 hours when you figure it all up. If the servers sucked or Xbox Live had a problem it would have gotten him at some point. That should be proof enough that lag outs are user related.

I haven't had one single lag out on Forza since replacing a bad cable and ever splitter in my home. My only problem came as a beta dashboard user and being prompted for updates mid race. Again, never a problem since I fixed the problem within my own home.
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Post by Texaspotatolord Tue 12 Mar 2013 - 3:02

Cars finishing and cars finishing where they should have finished are two completely different things.

A lot more cars finish nowadays, you are 100% correct in that. But there's still a huge amount of mechanical misshaps that result in cars losing laps. Laps that are near impossible to get back.(inless your Audi)

What's wrong with 7 stints is that it's a six stint race. We're just simply adding distance. I'd rather have 5 perfect stints and lose out on one(which my team did) than to have a 7 stint system. It just takes the point out of it to me. I want my mistakes to mean something, it makes driving more intense for me. To know that my teams performance is heavily on my stint. An extra stint would take the care out of it for me, to know I could just simply drop this one.

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Post by CQR NEON Tue 12 Mar 2013 - 3:12

From the CQRish Dyson Racing point of view (theoretically) if magictap hadn't had the damage he had in his stint we could have challenged a win. This whole drop a stint thing is just daft. so many teams could have won sebring with this system. Podiums where possible for us in the honda lola if we dropped a stint but what has happened during the race has happened and thats the way it is. we just have to get on with it. The system wood be flawed and open to lots of manipulation, corrupting what would be the real race scores.

So there is another of my many opinions for people to read. Smile
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Post by F4H Drake Tue 12 Mar 2013 - 3:21

TG Wormburner wrote:Drake if you drop a stint then there is no point in having an anchor team. If my team is winning at the end of stint "Y" and only stint "Z" remains there is no way I'm sitting there for 2 hours racing in a pointless exhibition. Pretty sure in the Sebring race after the second to last stint this could have happened. Pretty dumb to have the 12 hours of Sebring winner to only do 10 hours because of a rule and a lot of teams once it's "over" aren't going to race either. It defeats the entire purpose of racing.

What happens in this if three teams actually do finish all stints and after the drop rounds your winning team that actually won the twelve hours finished 3rd in the 10 hours? The anger would be overwhelming and TORA staff would have a storm on their hands.

A race, a race series, etc should be won on the track. Not through some manufactured rule that benefits people that don't finish or don't run a good race.

Too much is being said and too much is being looked over. XBR Mad Dog held a continuous connection for over 10 hours when you figure it all up. If the servers sucked or Xbox Live had a problem it would have gotten him at some point. That should be proof enough that lag outs are user related.

Every team would be completing the same amount of time, because you'd be doing an extra stint so no team would be only doing 10 hours. Also everyone has the chance to gain from the extra stint, so would you be willing to sit out of the stint, so sure in your lead? You would need to have quite a large margin of victory to do as such. In essence, your main competitors would have needed to have two major mishaps.

I would have to agree that lag outs are user related, unfortunately since Forza is P2P, it is related to all the users. Mad Dog may have been running with with a lobby that with advantageous for his geographical location, where as someone that lagged out may have been running with people from all over the place.

Thank you Neon, I agree that the biggest issue would involve people attempting to take advantage of it.

Texas, if you are so keen having your driving being impacting on your teams standing, you could ban the replacement of stints that faulted by that own team's driver. So if you biffed it into a wall, you would be unable to replace that stint. But that would just seem to make it worse.

I'm looking forward to Britcar. It was one of my favorite races.
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Post by TG Wormburner Tue 12 Mar 2013 - 4:14

Drake I am certain that my team, F4H, and CQR would benefit greatly from your extra stint and more often than not those are the types of teams that would win.

You want even worse lobby standards? Let people know they can be even more reckless knowing their race doesn't matter. Let that person hit someone who could make up ground.

I do not see one single positive from running an extra stint.
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Post by Velox Midget Tue 12 Mar 2013 - 4:19

Drake Hellspawn wrote:
Bandit1097 wrote:
I wouldn't say forbid the ultra laggers from racing, but at least tell them to give other drivers more space than usual when either passing them or being passed by another driver.

Nah, have the ultra laggers run the most defensive line possible. Why not? It's endurance racing, as a RoadRunner has stated multiple times "[Censored] happens". Deal with it. I know that in the mornings my connection is not as strong as it normally is, and I try to be extra courteous, but seeing as everyone is so willing to just deal with it, I should not go out of my way anymore. I'll just run my race and if someone I'm passing gets lag bombed, oh well. Tough luck, it's racing.

You say I've missed the point of endurance racing, but you've missed the point of this topic. The idea is to create a more enjoyable racing environment without causing inadvertent stresses or advantages/disadvantages. It it not my intent to influence this series and its races negatively, but your arguments, if they can be called as such, offer no counter proposals and continue to highlight the same flaws, that exist even if any sort "lag out contingency" were to be implemented. Rather than flat out saying I'm wrong, your energy would be better spent in trying to find a way to take advantage, or finding a disadvantage, of the idea(s) proposed. Not only would it be constructive, but it would also solidify your point that the current way is better.

To have it all in one place, my idea stands at: An extra stint would be tacked on, most likely just before the final stint. All teams would partake in this stint. Teams that have lagged out prior to this stint, or had major accidents would not be allowed to have their fastest driver drive this stint. Teams that have not had a lag out or major crash, would be allowed to have their fastest driver. If this extra stint was faster than any of the previous stints, excluding the rolling start stint, than it would replace that stint on the timing sheets.

Furthermore, the concept of endurance racing has been changing since it first started, and it will continue to change. The rules for 2014 are mighty interesting, but 'inside experts' claim maximum horsepower figures just above 400 hp, further diminishing the mechanical stresses on internal components, and the actual endurance focus on the machines. The endurance aspect has shifted to those driving and the mechanics. There is so much emphasis now on doing long multiple stints, and getting high fuel mileage and good tyre wear rather than just going for outright speed.

With this trend, having this extra stint I believe adds to the endurance of the event. Considering that you would most likely want your fastest driver in this stint, the chances would be he has already done a considerable amount of time in the car, and running this extra stint may not be as beneficial as running a different driver. This stint is supposed to be treated as a normal stint, so all the dangers still apply from all the previous stints. It's mainly a second chance opportunity and there is always the possibility that this stint would not affect the standing as at all. Yet the opposite is true, in where the standing would be altered by massive margins, considering the amount of teams that could improve on a previous stint with this extra stint.

Note: If my grammar failed at some point I apologize. My eyes sting after my drive home through a down pour with badly aligned front headlights, and people driving without their lights on at all.

You are letting people pick and choose parts of their result, that is not how racing works. Luck and circumstance are a major part of endurance racing, this removes some of that. Also, define "major" crash for me please. We do not offer counter proposals because we do not agree that they are necessary, so we don't need to offer any.
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Post by HCR generaltso Tue 12 Mar 2013 - 5:14

the lag out rules are like russian police.

stern.

stern but fair.
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Post by Guest Tue 12 Mar 2013 - 5:34

So if all teams get to run this extra stint is it fair that some cant choose there quickest driver? No. If my teams finished the extra stint I would want that adding on not drop a previous one. I would want the full 14 hours were my team drove excellent and all pre pared there connections beforehand. If we had to choose a drop stint because of another teams hitting a wall an powering off i would be pissed off.

What about the LMP that flipped out the track at Le Man? Cant that be classed as a lag out in reality? Lol

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Post by Velox Midget Tue 12 Mar 2013 - 6:10

gen3ral ts0 wrote:the lag out rules are like russian police.

stern.

stern but fair.

Like Russian Police? Fair?!?! Looool, you poor fool
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Post by F4H Drake Tue 12 Mar 2013 - 6:33

TG Wormburner wrote:Drake I am certain that F4H, and CQR would benefit greatly from your extra stint and more often than not those are the types of teams that do win.

You want even worse lobby standards? Let people know they can be even more reckless knowing their race doesn't matter. Let that person hit someone who could make up ground.

I do not see one single positive from running an extra stint.

Everyone would benefit from the stint. What happens in the race, happens, but the extra stint offers a possible second chance if something were to happen. [For Midgetexpress] I would define a major accident as something caused by a lag bomb, or intentional crashing.

Of the 4 Endurance races last year, in the top class, an F4H or CQR team took the win at 3 of 4 races. This is with CQR only having one team at Sebring last year, and F4H not competing.

With the mentality that your race doesn't matter, even the extra stint won't help because eventually your race does matter or if you truly believe it does not then why would you race at all?

'That person' would hit someone regardless, and should that someone be you, your only chance of making up ground is to hope that the front runners, lag out, crash or get hit themselves all because that person was inexperienced, inattentive or judged something incorrectly. Wishing for the misfortune of others is no way to race. Given F4H's multiple lag outs in the past, I would not be surprised if people wished they would lag out. The same applies with CQR Magictap's steering wheel. I know during my first endurance race, even without knowing about Magictap and F4H's issues, I was hoping that something would happen to the front runners. I was disappointed in myself after the fact, and I aimed to try and give feedback to car lists in the hope that they would be fair as possible, because if I am going to win, I want to win knowing I won because I was either the better driver or the better racer.

Midgetexpress, the teams wouldn't be able to 'pick and choose' at all. I would think it would be pretty straight forward, in that, if something lag related were to happen and your extra stint was faster, it would replace the lag plagued stint. Or in the case that nothing happened, the extra stint would either replace your slowest stint or do nothing if something happened in the extra stint.

gen3ral ts0 wrote:the lag out rules are like russian police.

stern.

stern but fair.

Russia has police? I thought they just had military everywhere. tongue

CQR CHRiS wrote:So if all teams get to run this extra stint is it fair that some cant choose there quickest driver? No. If my teams finished the extra stint I would want that adding on not drop a previous one. I would want the full 14 hours were my team drove excellent and all pre pared there connections beforehand. If we had to choose a drop stint because of another teams hitting a wall an powering off i would be pissed off.

What about the LMP that flipped out the track at Le Man? Cant that be classed as a lag out in reality? Lol

The driver ruling was a suggestion, just like everything else.

And if your team didn't drive excellent? If instead you had lagged out, got wrecked, lag bombed, crashed, or some sort of controller error?

While we are at, since everyone wants to jump on the band wagon of people becoming more reckless with the extra stint. What is to stop someone, with the current system we have, from downloading 100 gigs of porn whilst doing his stint and lag bombing multiple people in his stint? Heck what if a whole team did this for the majority of the race before someone caught on to it? Sure enough, I would imagine their expulsion would coming swiftly there after, but the damage would have been done, no?

Of course these are extreme cases, but tensions can build and what's to stop someone from giving the person a bump in T1 t Sebring because he's angry at that driver or team, and then doing something similar to that same driver and team in a later stint and in T17 this time? If you are going to jump to hypothetical scenarios, it's best that your side of the argument isn't susceptible to the exact same situation.

It's ridiculous that I've had to defend an idea like such, when there isn't any indication that it would come to fruition. I'm truly surprised with the amount of opposition there is for any "lag contingency" plan. I am not saying that the fastest team should win because there a plenty of opportunities in the race for them to stumble, but something lag related should not be one of them. If people want to win or get podiums because they picked up what was left after someone got lagged out, then so be it. You did not win because you were faster, better in traffic, or more consistent. You won on chance, and if you want to take it as a victory so be it. If you want to say that lagging out was a 'mechanical failure', know that it's an excuse. But if the reverse should happen to you, do not come looking for pity claiming your race was ruined because 'So-and-So' lagged into you, you lagged out, or something happened to your controller.

If TORA should ever decide to test any of the proposed ideas, or one of their own, I would suggest running it by Worm first. He's quite good at manipulating something to his advantage and he even does it quickly.

TL:DR
-People that have been affected by lag want it changed

-People that have benefited from other's lag or haven't been affect don't want it changed

-CQR are masochists Laughing Who don't want anything changed

-Worm has a good connection

-XBR Mad Dog is a Mad Beast Twisted Evil

-Russian Police Question

(/ .□.)\ ︵╰(゜Д゜)╯︵ /(.□. \)
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Post by F4H Drake Tue 12 Mar 2013 - 7:27

Sound doesn't kick in till about 20 seconds. Brought tears to my eyes. So funny.

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Post by Guest Tue 12 Mar 2013 - 8:16

And if your team didn't drive excellent? If instead you had lagged out, got wrecked, lag bombed, crashed, or some sort of controller error?

Well thats were the realism of endurance comes into play.

Controller error - Puncture, Steering failure.
Crashed - Well your fault thats tough.
Lag - electrical failures e.g hydrolic failure for vettel running away and car stops. BTCC honda, gordon sheddon electrical issues still wont championship at end.

If i know that i crash it doesnt matter theres no risk, i might aswell drive ridiculous if i hit someone i could just say its ok youve got another stint. For me 12 Hours of Sebring is what the title says. If you lag out of a stint then lag out the extra stint then what do we do? Is it a case of finding something to else to cover up poor internet connections?

EDIT: And dont say reliability has improved in real life. Regulations are put in place to help ease stress on a car due to money. If a team doesnt finish sponsors will put out.

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Post by Koenigsegg R Tue 12 Mar 2013 - 8:54

Yaaay!! Abruzzi!! Very Happy
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Post by Racert46 Tue 12 Mar 2013 - 9:00

For me there is a differance between Sprint racing and endurance events

Personally i would not like to add a extra stint.
No matter how I look at it an extra stint seems unfair imo. For me it takes away the Luck factor that is a big part of these kind of races. So maybe the outright fasted team doesn't win because of a lag out, or your wheel, battery, tv or xbox's dies during the race it is part of the endurance charm.
You may not like it but you have to accept it for what it is or not enter.

Seeing the events of last year and this year, we had teams winning or getting to the podium that on out right speed would not have won but 1) they stayed out of trouble on track and 2) had their stuff together on the hard ware side and that paid off for them.

In all these races we have seen that the fasted guys also make mistakes and can get damage and not always at their own fault. Then a team with less outright speed does not take to many risks and stay undamaged during their stint in the end should benefit from their chosen tactic.
Adding a extra stint just so the top teams have more change on winning is not fair to these other teams. This is their change to beat some of the best and for those teams it bring great joy and satisfaction.

Other event feed back is on incident in the A lobby that needs to be look at for next time:

In stint 3 there were 3 lmp1 placed at the back of the grid (Venom, Chrisupra and tsaFooT) giving big advantage to the LMP teams that where at the front of the pack. What i understood was that those car where more than 5000ft infront after those 3 cleared the pack of just started GT cars. This is dangerous to both classes and unfair to those 3 lmp teams in the back. In the lobby B that i was in we had the lmp's alway starting in front and it made the starts a little less demanding. Would like to see the same rules being used in all of the the lobbies.

I think i read it in this threat already but i think there should be some catch up point during the race and with that I mean no double stinting at for example the halfway point so that the delays that occour can be taken away with a new lobby and drivers starting on time reducing the delay in the end. For stint 4 i got my invite around 30 min before the start, and then it took 1 hour to get the race started because we had to wait on double stinters. I have no problem with double or even triple stints but we need to look at reducing the delays that these are bringing.


Just sharing my personal view on this extra stint item. Don't shoot me....
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Post by Ax4x Chaddy Tue 12 Mar 2013 - 9:29

I want to thank the TORA staff for the changes they made for this years Sebring 12hrs, it shows they do take this stuff onboard and do thier very best to put on a great race. I have to admit for a lobby host who is deaf just taking down everyones mileage would have been just a wee bit easyer Razz.

Onwards to Le Mans which as been a great track for me in the past, VAMR in the top 3 in both classes would be rather nice but its a long race!
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Post by F4H Drake Tue 12 Mar 2013 - 9:29

CQR CHRiS wrote:And if your team didn't drive excellent? If instead you had lagged out, got wrecked, lag bombed, crashed, or some sort of controller error?

Well thats were the realism of endurance comes into play.

Controller error - Puncture, Steering failure.
Crashed - Well your fault thats tough.
Lag - electrical failures e.g hydrolic failure for vettel running away and car stops. BTCC honda, gordon sheddon electrical issues still wont championship at end.


If i know that i crash it doesnt matter theres no risk, i might aswell drive ridiculous if i hit someone i could just say its ok youve got another stint. For me 12 Hours of Sebring is what the title says. If you lag out of a stint then lag out the extra stint then what do we do? Is it a case of finding something to else to cover up poor internet connections?

EDIT: And dont say reliability has improved in real life. Regulations are put in place to help ease stress on a car due to money. If a team doesnt finish sponsors will put out.

Everything in bold is pointless.

Go ahead crash into someone, watch the flames and steward's inquiry fly in.

I said second chance, it was implied that you would only get one final shot at doing well.

Also to make such a broad generalization as "dont say reliability has improved in real life" is entirely baffling. By that logic the Formula One cars of the 1960s are just as reliable at those of today, which must be a joke, considering at all 10 Grand Prix of the 1960 Formula One season, atleast 7 cars did even finish the race, and those aren't endurance races either.

I won't lie, am I bit tired but it was difficult to read your post and make heads or tails of that last sentence, "If a team doesnt finish sponsors will put out." Grammar is important, because that reads as: if a team doesn't finish sponsors will continue to give them money. I would imagine that is supposed to read "pull out", yet I would argue sponsors don't care if their car finishes, they want two things. To win and get air time on television.

F4H Koenigsegg wrote:Yaaay!! Abruzzi!! Very Happy

Winning.

Edit: I don't care anymore. If all I'm going to get are the same three arguments of: manipulable system, encourages reckless driving, and 'it's racing deal with it', especially with such illogical, exaggerated examples after I've gone through the effort to create, at the very least, legible response, then there is no real point. It seems that the majority of the community that is aware of this issue do not care, and while it is very hypocritical for me to say this, it would be bittersweet satisfaction to watch the majority of these baseless and ridiculous counter arguments that have been used in the reasoning against the proposed ideas, come to happening because, hey guess what, there is not a way to stop reckless driving. Then when someone claims that something happened that was out of their control and ruined their race everyone can just say
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