MSA TORA TCC Season 8 - General Discussion

Tuesday cant come quick enough just to get this discussion ended.

Just think Race of Champions soon. Picture this Haydo wins the championship, what car do i ask for the volvo or the lexus???

Surely it's the car he signed up in. Or is the car he won the championship in. Oh wait, I see. Hmm. Devilish question Chucky!

CQR MAGiC wrote:Or subs only score for teams championship, problem solved. If they're a sub, they're not entering the whole championship, so awarding them drivers points isn't necessary, they're there to help the team so only the team should score. But like Chris said, the rules are the rules that are written now and that is what has to be enforced, but it's good to be able to have a mature and through debate about how they can be improved in the future.

+1

Can we not pretend it was a Corvette he may win in? I mean... the Volvo is Swedish and the Lexus is a Japanese lie ffs.

You guys didn't gripe when Berty scored individual points in weeks 1, 2, and 3 while switching cars and if he continued to score points as an individual in the individual championship I'm 110% certain your sarcastic, demeaning attitude you've displayed about the situation would not be here today.

Spare us all from reading the hypocrisy in your argument. Your team has already done the exact thing you are debating against. Of course, it didn't hurt or potentially hurt anyone on your team then but it is now.

The Volvo struggling to make lobby A would surprise me, it would make sense to have the championship contenders in the top lobby where the championship battle is taking place.

Er, Berty was not in a team, he was a privateer - he JOINED one of our teams, you know the club he's part of and wants to race with once there was space in a team.

Your driver LEFT one of your teams to race for a rival team that is already ahead of your own team in the championship - to put it simply, he is racing and scoring points AGAINST the very team he is signed up for in the championship.

It's like Vettel signing to race for Red Bull, then substituting in a Ferrari and scoring points for that team over the team he is signed up for.

Like Chucky said, if Haydo wins the championship, we don't even know what car he would submit for Race of Champions, in effect he is racing two cars now in the TCC, whereas everyone else only has the choice of one.

All of CQR's championship contenders are in the same car they have used all season - as you yourself kept banging on about being the right way to do it last night - and will continue to race in the same car for the final round. It's your own driver who is doing the very thing you abhore, so stop pointing the finger elsewhere please.

But did'nt the Volvo get rebalanced to have more PI in all of this. As car balancing goes Worm and you should know this over a season each car has strong and weak tracks the reasons Haydo gave were not to help out a team but to gain a advantage.

MYLES PR0WER wrote:The Volvo struggling to make lobby A would surprise me, it would make sense to have the championship contenders in the top lobby where the championship battle is taking place.

So you mean all championship contenders should be allowed to swap cars for the final round if the car they've chosen isn't competitive?

The (very short) season calendar of 6 rounds was published nearly 3 months ago - everyone knew what tracks were on the list before signing up. I chose a car that I felt would be competitive over the season - it started out weak at round 1 at Silverstone but has come good at the end of the season. Like CHRiS said, other cars have been strong at different points in the season. But if someone chooses a car that is weak in the final race they can change? How is that fair.

May I also point out that TCC has a dropped round - I have to use my dropped round to cover the track where I was weak at and only made B lobby (Mugello). Haydo CHOSE NOT to race at Tsukuba (scoring zero) so does not have the luxury of dropping NurbGP now he's found his car lacking there. Again, that was his choice not to enter Tsukuba.

You say the conversation was kept civil but that was an insanely sarcastic message by Magic up there after Mikey explained his reasons.

This is one of the things that seriously irritates me here. It's a game, it's meant to be fun, there's no money or major prestige involved other than inside the community, yet some treat it like its life or death!! Mikey explained why he needed a sub, Haydo offered to help and until proven otherwise I feel it's only fair that it's taken as helping a friend not gaining an unfair advantage!

Seriously guys, it doesn't make the series look good when you've got this snidy, bitter and suspicion-riddle discussion going on!

Or remove the whole part about subs, no subs at all. And use best 5 out of 6 count towards the Teams Championship.

MichaelJGroves wrote:and until proven otherwise I feel it's only fair that it's taken as helping a friend not gaining an unfair advantage!

There's your proof, direct from the driver's own keyboard:

TG Haydo wrote:"I've done around 70 laps prep & tried every possible build & no 32's. I need to be in the 32's for a shout of A lobby/competing for the championship."

"I've been driving the volvo all season which isn't exactly competitive and as soon as I plan on driving a car that can compete you all start moaning"

"I could sit here & tune the volvo all week and never hit that lap again. Alot of thought went into making this decision & I want to best my chances to win. "

"All I want is the chance to compete with CQR for the title, as opposed to watching them running away with all 3 spots on the podium!"

Does that sound like someone substituting to help out another team. No, it's to help themselves now they've found they're own car isn't competitive in the final round.

Koenigsegg R wrote:Or remove the whole part about subs, no subs at all. And use best 5 out of 6 count towards the Teams Championship.

+1

Magic, can I just point out that section you've "quoted" is actually two different messages, so it does make it appear you're changing stuff about to suit your argument.

+1 on Koenigseggs point btw

There's no difference in my mind between subbing "to gain an advantage" and entering drivers with the intention of using them to help at the end of the Championship. 5 CQR drivers have missed 2 races or more, 2 of whom haven't yet raced. Will they be entering the final round?

MichaelJGroves wrote:Magic, can I just point out that section you've "quoted" is actually two different messages, so it does make it appear you're changing stuff about to suit your argument.

It's 4 different messages actually Michael, from 4 separate posts.

MichaelJGroves wrote:There's no difference in my mind between subbing "to gain an advantage" and entering drivers with the intention of using them to help at the end of the Championship.

There's a massive difference. A loophole in the substitute driver rule is being exploited by TG Haydo to engineer a free car change in the final round in the season. This doesn't breach TCC rules, but it is against the 2013 TORA Sporting Regulations and should therefore not be allowed:

"Unsportsmanlike Conduct:

Other forms are willfully using non-performance technicalities to hurt another competitor’s point standings to the benefit of one’s own, failing to report a mistake in scoring that benefits themselves."

And your all still at it. Lmao

Yup. Everyone had moved on. But Worm decided to continue the argument.

BTW, Watkin are you going to be able to race your Lexus on Tuesday? If not, I was wondering if I could substitute in your team, I fancy a change of car for the last round.

If you actually bothered to read any posts you would see CQR Phil is no longer entered into this championship.

Correct. CQR PHIL was removed from the Prodrive team at the midpoint of the season, as is allowed by TCC rules. He's just not been removed from the championship table.

They just want to win I can understand it, the racing will certainly be eventful! Jackhawk is away with connection issues anyone of you CQR guys want to sub for him?  

Haha yes, it's going to be a tense final 3 races Myles!

What car is Jackhawk in?

BMW 1M

This debate is just repeating itself back to the start guys, we're keeping it as Civil as possible, but please, if you have a point to make, be sure it's a positive and new one, otherwise this will never end.

All drivers must use VW Scirocco's with an Apple Pie livery, end of.

Seriously, some good issues brought up, just please keep them mature.

MYLES PR0WER wrote:...the racing will certainly be eventful!

I'll just leave this here.....

This race is being broadcasted, shall we get QuickFit or ScrapMetal Merchant's involved as a sponsor? Not too late