MSA TORA ISCC Season 5 - General Discussion (part 1 full)

Why do we now have a war between GT's & LMP1's? How hard is it to get around people? We've never really had problems like this before this season. If you're pissed at someone for a collision then don't have a slagging match on the forum. This is why we have bleeding stewards.

A simple solution to hectic first turns is to be cautious. Simple as that.

It's really hard when your planning your pass on a slower classed car then once you catch that car they decide to go offline mid corner to let you by. I understand most GT and LMPC drivers are just trying to help, but if any of the other LMP1 drivers are like me, we start planning are pass a couple corners before we even catch the traffic. When a GT or LMPC car goes offline to let us pass, its usually where we had planned to pass that car and that is where the accidents happen. Please, slower traffic just hold the racing line.

i dont see a difference with rolling or standing starts, you will always reach the first corner at speed, regardless of what the start was, all it takes is to be a little cautious through turns 1 - 3 then go for it, you cant win the race on the first lap and first corner !

Lobby D had no problems on the *ahem* second rolling start, I bet you other lobbies didn't have an issue either. Rolling starts are not the problem, as we have used them countless times throughout not only ISCC but in GT series, Spec Cup, TASCAR, you name it.

What really needs to happen is for the racers to sort themselves out.

And while I'm on that note, traffic needs to hold their line

F4H Bullet wrote:It's really hard when your planning your pass on a slower classed car then once you catch that car they decide to go offline mid corner to let you by. I understand most GT and LMPC drivers are just trying to help, but if any of the other LMP1 drivers are like me, we start planning are pass a couple corners before we even catch the traffic. When a GT or LMPC car goes offline to let us pass, its usually where we had planned to pass that car and that is where the accidents happen. Please, slower traffic just hold the racing line.

Thats all good if the LMP driver is reliable and safe like you are, but I know I would have had a written off car a couple of times if I didn't adjust my line sometimes as quite a few LMP's like to lunge even after the GT has committed to the corner, probably because of the difference in braking distances.

rainonef1 wrote:To some extent, I agree with Kenny on the rolling starts.  I know that it has been a tradition since season one but it does make the first turn hectic and a huge risk of an accident happen (which can ruin your entire race).  Lobby A has been fantastic for the past three races in GTE, or at least for me.  I'm not trying to add any complaining, or change the way we begin the race, I just wanted to give me two cents that I understand where Kenny is coming from.  I also understand that most, if not all racing series (F1, ALMS) have a hectic first turn...I want to make myself clear I'm not proposing any change in the start, but nobody wants any damage in TORA, and absolutely not have to quit at the beginning of the race.

Thank you i was also not saying to change the rules simply saying its just not for me. I just think that u should be rewarded by your grid position more than a rolling start offers you.

Lunging down the inside of GTs through a braking zone is stupid and shouldn't be allowed. Its too risky for both parties and if one LMP car does it, then the car following the said LMP car also dives down the inside it prevents the GT from turning in and keeping to their racing line. GTs have their own race to run as well as the leading LMP cars.

I don't think we're doing rolling starts because its 'traditional'. It just seems like a safer way to begin a long multiclass sportscar race than a standing start.

Racing incidents will happen. And may I also add, we have stewards. Submit an SI if you feel a driver has broke the rules.

ive yet to experience such problems in this series that people are talking about, how hard could it be to show up, race, keep it clean, pass safely and then enjoy the aftermath ?

BAR Smurfy wrote:ive yet to experience such problems in this series that people are talking about, how hard could it be to show up, race, keep it clean, pass safely and then enjoy the aftermath ?

+1

TweekPunx wrote:Managed to get into lobby B for the first time, all be it by the skin of my teeth :PMade a bit of a mess of qualifying by doing a series of slow laps and then on my final go I ran wide on the final chicane and dirtied my lap while 0.7 up :(Race went well though, even if it was a bit uneventful. Managed to drive around everyone's accidents on the opening lap and got up to 3rd where I stayed for the whole race :)There were two other guys in GTE who were ahead of me (not sure who they were, will have to check the replay which I will try to stick on my SF this evening, it wouldn't let me for some reason last night) but they were long gone and I couldn't catch them. The LMP boys were good to me and didn't have any run-ins with any of them :)A good but quiet race for me, looking forward to Suzuka

Guessing you have Mug in the filename or description? I couldnt upload until I changed it.
Naughty word is mug lol

i would love to see this list of banned words from microsoft since t10 use their servers for their games.but how is mug a banned word since its a type of cup i.e a mug of tea if you will.

BAR Smurfy wrote:ive yet to experience such problems in this series that people are talking about, how hard could it be to show up, race, keep it clean, pass safely and then enjoy the aftermath ?

I've never experienced problems in a GT car, but that's because I don't drive into cars blindly.  

Main problem is people assume they should just always take their line. Yes GT cars stay on your line, but when a car is passing expect that line to be changed slightly.

Maybe you have to take a wider line, or have to get on the power a bit later, or turn in later, or even brake earlier. All of these are incredibly easy things to do, and that don't lose you much time from at all, but some people just can't be bothered with them. But I guess why would you, when you can always blame the always reckless LMPs.

Texaspotatolord wrote:

BAR Smurfy wrote:ive yet to experience such problems in this series that people are talking about, how hard could it be to show up, race, keep it clean, pass safely and then enjoy the aftermath ?

I've never experienced problems in a GT car, but that's because I don't drive into cars blindly.  

Main problem is people assume they should just always take their line. Yes GT cars stay on your line, but when a car is passing expect that line to be changed slightly.

Maybe you have to take a wider line, or have to get on the power a bit later, or turn in later, or even brake earlier. All of these are incredibly easy things to do, and that don't lose you much time from at all, but some people just can't be bothered with them.

+1

A lot of guys in GT are solid enough and I know them well enough that I don't need to really call a move, I just zip past and we barely impede each other. Some make a meal of it.

Some GTs think they have priority when it's simply not the case. The holding line guideline is more for consistency and safety so cock ups happen less, but it still does happen.

LMR DarthMario wrote:working on getting a video up of my MKR Ford GT keeping pace with the LMPC ride of XPR Soundwave down the straightaway.

here's what i took from my replay:

xVampirAx wrote:i would love to see this list of banned words from microsoft since t10 use their servers for their games.but how is mug a banned word since its a type of cup i.e a mug of tea if you will.

In the UK Mug can be used as a slang term.

You Mug (Fool)
Mug someone off (Make a fool of)
To Mug someone (Rob them)

The server never said it was a banned word but as soon as I couldnt upload the file I changed it to melo and it uploaded fine :/

LMR DarthMario wrote:

LMR DarthMario wrote:working on getting a video up of my MKR Ford GT keeping pace with the LMPC ride of XPR Soundwave down the straightaway.

here's what i took from my replay:

SNIP

I found the LMPC cars were similar on the straights around sebring also.
I had to kind of allow them past into the braking zone to get em out of the way by braking and staying wide as they couldn't make it past otherwise

For me the biggest issue in the ISCC is the lapped cars not sticking to the written rules and letting cars by. I hate it soooo much just stop saying go right or go left or wait here - just let us focus on what we're suppose to do.

If there's a SI and it goes along the lines of the LMP1 getting caught out cause the GT car said go right when the LMP1 wanted to go left its the GT's fault in my view.

It would cut the lobby chat by a good lot and all you would hear is 'LMP1 on left/right'. The guys in my lobby were very interested on which car was about to lap them asking 'who's the LMP1 car coming into the last right hander?' - Who cares just look at the dot on the map for the color and look in your mirrors and listen to what that driver has has to say.

I would say to stop calling out moves when racing other cars as this would also cut out chat from the lobby. Its racing so why tell others were you are, fight them, get close, pull off great moves, thats the racing I want to see.

completely agree Chaddy,
lapped cars (be it GT, LMPC or LMP1) need to stick on their line, and let the faster car pass on their own accord, because majority of LMP drivers know where to pass, and where to hold back
it's up to the GT car to know where the LMP car is, and just stay on the racing line

VAMR Wilson wrote:For me the biggest issue in the ISCC is the lapped cars not sticking to the written rules and letting cars by.  I hate it soooo much just stop saying go right or go left or wait here - just let us focus on what we're suppose to do.

If there's a SI and it goes along the lines of the LMP1 getting caught out cause the GT car said go right when the LMP1 wanted to go left its the GT's fault in my view.

It would cut the lobby chat by a good lot and all you would hear is 'LMP1 on left/right'. The guys in my lobby were very interested on which car was about to lap them asking 'who's the LMP1 car coming into the last right hander?' - Who cares just look at the dot on the map for the color and look in your mirrors and listen to what that driver has has to say.

I would say to stop calling out moves when racing other cars as this would also cut out chat from the lobby. Its racing so why tell others were you are, fight them, get close, pull off great moves, thats the racing I want to see.

As a driver in the GTE class I completely agree with this. I regularly check the minimap and when I see a red or blue dot get close I keep to my line and wait for them to go past, LMP1s usually go flying by but I know that on some sections of track LMPCs have similar speeds to the GTEs so I find it more helpful to hear which side they are planning to pass me on rather than me say "you go there".

CRA Erebus wrote:it's up to the [slower] car to know where the [faster] car is, and just stay on the racing line

I would say it's a little more fluid than that. if the faster car coming behind you is still on the line, definitely hold your own line. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't be watching your mirrors for when it goes off line, as inevitably some passes are going to have to happen in corners, and possibly from further back than might be expected. Yes, it's difficult to adjust your line mid-corner but it's going to happen every now and then.
I'm coming from a PC perspective here, but as that video shows, we don't have the luxury of following through the corner and then trivially breezing by on the straights in a lot of cases - Which means it's either under braking or even in the middle of the faster stuff where the downforce makes the difference.
Likewise, if I get caught by P1 at the 'wrong' place I'm not going to begrudge them outbraking me into a corner even if I do have to leave them some room to do it.

But I think the main thing to carry though is both patience on track, and an understanding that we're all going to make misjudgements and mistakes from time to time. Sometimes we get away with it and just piss someone off, other times we might wreck someone else's evening and/or our own.
It's difficult to take a step back when you've got a gutful of adrenaline, but ultimately, we're all here for fun, and nothing grander than that

Texaspotatolord wrote:It should be kept rolling in my opinion. It's sports car racing, deal with it. There's always going to be a  hectic turn one, a standing start would just mean all three classes are even closer to each other for the turn.

+1

Rolling starts are not being removed, what is apparent are drivers need to learn to be patient in multiclass racing.

SelectiveRogue wrote:what is apparent are drivers need to learn to be patient in multiclass racing.

+1