MSA TORA Daytona 24H - General Discussion

Anyone up for pancakes. ?

Mmeeeeeeeeee

HCR MeRiCA wrote:Anyone up for pancakes. ?

Best question I've heard this week.

People feedback are good for us (TORA Staff) because these give us your point of view to improve on each event organized. I know that next race the Staff will enhance their logistic method for the benefit of everyone.

For the TORA Staff: My recommendation to improve in some areas, for example:

1. Event inscription – We need to push drivers to read the rules before they sign in for any event.

2. Steward Member – For endurance race, my recommendation is to assign one steward member on each lobby’s; this will control people during the event, also, on hand, have immediate penalties in case if someone is incurring in a violation.

3. Race formula – I saw in this thread people questioning the method utilized for this event. Show the formula and bring them an example, this will help you to be transparent during the event. Remember that there are people that unknown to convert miles to feet or vice-versa, etc…

4. Race timing – If you add 15 minutes to each race, you need to start 15 minutes before, the stint should be setup before each race, the host of each stint should now the drivers name. If the stint is delayed or behind schedule, the next host should now it and send a message to each driver that we are belated for next race.

5. Event restriction – a minimum lap time to qualify before driver inscription; driving skills and multi-category experience should be required before team-up, etc… this will generate more people interested in being on LMP or GT class events. Give them a Pro-license to be in these categories, you can make writing test and driving test for the license. Most of the incident occurred in these categories are because there are people seen to be fast but unknown how to race in these categories.

These are my humble recommendation to improve TEC.

Respectfully,

DTechR wrote:5. Event restriction – a minimum lap time to qualify before driver inscription; driving skills and multi-category experience should be required before team-up, etc… this will generate more people interested in being on LMP or GT class events.  Give them a Pro-license to be in these categories, you can make writing test and driving test for the license.  Most of the incident occurred in these categories are because there are people seen to be fast but unknown how to race in these categories.

This is a fantastic idea.

Just speaking to GearHead and gave him my two pennies worth so thought I'd put it in here too as I cannot believe this is even being discussed.

Not that my two pennies worth is needed but, coming at this from a professional stand point as I'm in a professional gaming organisation, If I was representing BAM in any serious league/competition and I physically turned around on track and drove backwards regardless of the distance I'd probably find myself looking for a new team.

The president of the organisation & my teammates would be embarrassed, although they might find it slightly funny. Whoever did this in your team should be disciplined as they, in all fairness just cost you an event win. Just my opinion.

BAM Boycotz wrote:Just speaking to GearHead and gave him my two pennies worth so thought I'd put it in here too as I cannot believe this is even being discussed.

Not that my two pennies worth is needed but, coming at this from a professional stand point as I'm in a professional gaming organisation, If I was representing BAM in any serious league/competition and I physically turned around on track and drove backwards regardless of the distance I'd probably find myself looking for a new team.

The president of the organisation & my teammates would be embarrassed, although they might find it slightly funny. Whoever did this in your team should be disciplined as they, in all fairness just cost you an event win. Just my opinion.

And here's my reply to that which I PM'd him:

And this is my two cents, did he do something wrong? Yes, he did. Did it cost us the race, yes it did. But at the same time, we didn't know the penalty was going to be so harsh. The severity of the penalty wasn't outlined before the event. And I'd be damned if I made my friend, because he's more than a teammate to me, feel the whole weight of the world fall on his shoulders.

, it wasn't outlined that if you drive the opposite way around the track that you would be disqualified? Regardless of the distance.. Have a think about what your saying for a second.

Code:

HCR Motorhead wrote:

HCR MeRiCA wrote:Anyone up for pancakes. ?

Best question I've heard this week.

I'll have some mate!

Hailfire97x wrote:...anyways...

Just to emphasize the safety aspect, I drew up a diagram over a map of the circuit:



From experience with cars running out of fuel, I found it extremely dangerous to come up on a near-stationary vehicle in the red and purple corners; difference between the two is it was far worse to come up on a car in a narrow, blind corner than anywhere else. I'd much rather a car be near-stationary (or reversing) out-of-harm's-way on the inside of the tri-oval, since it is incredibly unlikely the vehicle would pose a threat there.
I also drew up where I figured to be the first hole in the pit wall for vehicles to turn into, should logic be anything beyond that being too far to simply cut onto the pit lane without receiving a harsher penalty. In that case, sure, that's really excessive and would be dangerous to personnel on the pit lane.

My point remains: A full DQ for the stint--especially when other teams who didn't even show up were given 85% distance--is not only harsh, but it's ridiculously harsh.

This, this, this.

TyrannicCymbals wrote:

HCR Motorhead wrote:

HCR MeRiCA wrote:Anyone up for pancakes. ?

Best question I've heard this week.

I'll have some mate!

ME ME ME ME!!!

Om3ga73 wrote:

Hailfire97x wrote:...anyways...

Just to emphasize the safety aspect, I drew up a diagram over a map of the circuit:



From experience with cars running out of fuel, I found it extremely dangerous to come up on a near-stationary vehicle in the red and purple corners; difference between the two is it was far worse to come up on a car in a narrow, blind corner than anywhere else. I'd much rather a car be near-stationary (or reversing) out-of-harm's-way on the inside of the tri-oval, since it is incredibly unlikely the vehicle would pose a threat there.
I also drew up where I figured to be the first hole in the pit wall for vehicles to turn into, should logic be anything beyond that being too far to simply cut onto the pit lane without receiving a harsher penalty. In that case, sure, that's really excessive and would be dangerous to personnel on the pit lane.

My point remains: A full DQ for the stint--especially when other teams who didn't even show up were given 85% distance--is not only harsh, but it's ridiculously harsh.

This, this, this.

Chaddy made it very clear that no-shows for a stint would get 0. So no one's being had off in that respect.

The trick is to not miss your pits in the first place. It was essential for us as the Rebellion does 9 laps and is on 2-3% left at the end of that 9th lap. But it is possible to coast round smartly on a few percent. Should you run out completely you can get some extra yards as it sputters but if you fall short, you can still make it to the pits totally empty (odd method but works, GG Forza).

I have just read through this
The penalty is appropriate for the incident

Considering that if you drive backwards on a circuit in real life this severe you get ya liscence taken away ita apt ...

I have just read through this
The penalty is appropriate for the incident

Considering that if you drive backwards on a circuit in real life this severe you get ya liscence taken away ita apt ...

I've had a read of the replies here and I thought I'd post my humble opinion. As I hope some of you know, I try not to get involved with this sort of thing as it's not my department but I think some things should be made clearer.

Firstly, the Staff are reading this, taking in suggestions and we are already planning on how to make Sebring better. Stuff like making rules clearer etc is being discussed, and in actual fact we have been updating the TORA Sporting Regulations as of last week; when ready this will be posted and will be clear and easy to find for everyone. It's currently a sticky in the Community Updates section... Maybe we'll make a link to it in the navbar perhaps?

For the most part it was a successful race, although many suffered the ill fate of disconnections and lag outs. We're ironing out the creases, and there may be rules regarding "appearing offline" and "notifications turned off" etc because that was an apparent issue for some.

And now the elephant in the room. I'd like to point out rule 7.5.19 in the TORA Sporting Reglations:

Driving the wrong way during any TORA meeting will result in DQ from the event even when cars are held in parc ferme conditions and the incident will be reported to the TORA steward team.

http://forums.theonlineracingassociation.com/t12061-tora-2013-14-15-sporting-regulations-19-11-2013

The evidence for such an action was streamed live on the TORA Twitch channel and the Steward team were immediately notified. You can watch it here at 8min 17sec: http://www.twitch.tv/toraonlinemedia/v/37238433

Basically it's saying that, no matter what or where, you can't purposely drive backwards on the circuit, or you will be DQed. Even if the offending driver hadn't been DQed from what we saw, there's no doubt that rule 7.5.19 would be pointed out to us and shoved in our face by everyone else.

Anyway, what's happened has happened and I think everyone has learnt something from the weekend. From this we can only hope to improve, and, come Sebring, to endeavour to improve we shall.

Stan, your dammed if you do and your dammed if you dont.

So whatever we do will always cause upset to someone somewhere.

do we have to stay in the same teams/cars for next race?

I fancy a drive in that nissan P1 car...

No you can change

Standaman94 wrote:
Firstly, the Staff are reading this, taking in suggestions and we are already planning on how to make Sebring better. Stuff like making rules clearer etc is being discussed, and in actual fact we have been updating the TORA Sporting Regulations as of last week; when ready this will be posted and will be clear and easy to find for everyone. It's currently a sticky in the Community Updates section... Maybe we'll make a link to it in the navbar perhaps?

I would definitely encourage that because the rules aren't really a "community update" and that's probably the last place I would have looked, and enforcing them will come into question when most people can't even find them, much less have taken the time to read them.

TyrannicCymbals wrote:

HCR Motorhead wrote:

HCR MeRiCA wrote:Anyone up for pancakes. ?

Best question I've heard this week.

I'll have some mate!

speaking of going backwards on track.. ol Twrecks here turned around in a former series at maplevalley on 4.... tyrannic what did pred do? if my memory servs correct he got dq'ed and suspended... but I'm old so my mind is a lil fuzzy

XPR generaltso wrote:do we have to stay in the same teams/cars for next race?

I fancy a drive in that nissan P1 car...

teams can change cars or even class if they so wish its the team NAME that must stay the same for the whole season if you want to continue collecting championship points

Here's the thing about dishing out a penalty... That rule was written in the context of preventing trolls or angry drivers going backwards to ruin others' races. We've never been in a situation where missing a pit stop would mean you run out of fuel until FM6 came around. Clarifying the context of the rule for new conditions should be done before automatically jumping to something as harsh as a DQ.

would it be possible to have a list of who is hosting your lobby or who might be hosting your lobby?

LMR Harmonic wrote:Here's the thing about dishing out a penalty... That rule was written in the context of preventing trolls or angry drivers going backwards to ruin others' races. We've never been in a situation where missing a pit stop would mean you run out of fuel until FM6 came around. Clarifying the context of the rule for new conditions should be done before automatically jumping to something as harsh as a DQ.

And that's kind of where my take is.

So basically what I'm hearing is if OD stopped on the grass, and reverse-drove his car (not drove backwards) into the pit lane, he'd be perfectly fine, as there's nothing within the rulebook to prevent that over short distances.

I think, from a stewards point of view, what's pis*ing me and others off about how the penalty was handled was that the basic stewards procedure was not adhered to...

There was one word of mouth and then BAMN penalty.

I thought the process was; file the incident, get the filee's POV and opinion, get the affected/guilty driver's POV and opinion and then look at the footage and make a fair decision based on all three of those.

So it kind of like 'well this person said this, so we'll run with it...' and that's what's really annoyed me.

Yes, you shouldn't drive around the track backwards, it's stupid and dangerous but A) he was 30ft from pit entry, B) on the grass 100ft from the racing line and C), it's not like he drove for 10 seconds backwards on the racing line and D) he was involved in an incident which put him in that position

but that's my worthless 2c