MSA TORA Sebring 12H - General Discussion

I'm going to take this time to apologize to the fellow LMP drivers I made contact with on Saturday, Speed Demon and Motorhead. Truth be told this was the first Enduro I had driven an LMP in competitively, and wasn't exactly sure about the braking distance needed on cold tires (Beginning of Stint 6 contact with Motorhead) or the minute difference between the Audi and Toyota's braking (both Stint 3 contacts with Speed). I know I came off worse in all 3 cases, but being experienced enough in GT cars I should've anticipated better and thus I apologize.

F4H Chrisupra wrote:This combination of uber fast and uber slow guys on the same teams is something I wish could be addressed. You have a guy who puts his team in the top 3 and then a guy comes in who is way off pace and it causes all sorts of problems and said driver cannot handle the situation or pressure and we have accidents.

Not exactly sure how we can address this, other than making every driver do quali and the team is placed on the podium based on the team's averaged out lap? But then again we'd have an issue where an emergency driver could sub for a team and do the same.

If you got any idea's let me know and I'll see what I can do about it.

HCR TJSteel wrote:

F4H Chrisupra wrote:This combination of uber fast and uber slow guys on the same teams is something I wish could be addressed. You have a guy who puts his team in the top 3 and then a guy comes in who is way off pace and it causes all sorts of problems and said driver cannot handle the situation or pressure and we have accidents.

Not exactly sure how we can address this, other than making every driver do quali and the team is placed on the podium based on the team's averaged out lap? But then again we'd have an issue where an emergency driver could sub for a team and do the same.

If you got any idea's let me know and I'll see what I can do about it.

Yeah it's something that would be difficult to manage. I mean, I WISH it could be handled but I am not sure it can. I just feel some people don't take the time to understand etiquette and race craft. Anyway, I do not mean to start a huge debate. Thoughts for you guys and the future.

Maybe we could see if we have the infrastructure for more lobbies and more teams. Currently we have a somewhat stratified sample which puts the strongest and weakest in the same place.

Maybe opening for more entries could attract more teams, naturally driving the competition forward. Lobby A should always set an example, no matter what. But this time around it was quite awful and may be a deterrent for interested parties.

Even though Stint 2 was shall we say scary. A lot has to do with no communication only within classes.

Stint 5 in the dark was just pure magic!
My shout out goes to LMR Gruff for an amazing battle under lights. That nippy Z4 is a right arse!

For anyone who had troubles with the GT-R I apologize, the team is being revamped for Monza luckily with more high-end drivers. As for Sebring, I did my best to keep it clean, only bumped two people (Xebot in S1 at T4 due to a battle with Adam/badly timed overtake from me, Punisher due to lag extending the hitbox for me) and was keeping the car in contention for my stints when I wasn't running out of fuel.

Speaking of which, the reason I was stopped in the track was because I clipped a kerb and bounced off a tyre wall back into the track and couldn't clutch-glitch it... Sorry about that and thanks to Freheliaz for shunting me out of the way haha

HCR TJSteel wrote:

F4H Chrisupra wrote:This combination of uber fast and uber slow guys on the same teams is something I wish could be addressed. You have a guy who puts his team in the top 3 and then a guy comes in who is way off pace and it causes all sorts of problems and said driver cannot handle the situation or pressure and we have accidents.

Not exactly sure how we can address this, other than making every driver do quali and the team is placed on the podium based on the team's averaged out lap? But then again we'd have an issue where an emergency driver could sub for a team and do the same.

If you got any idea's let me know and I'll see what I can do about it.

I got an idea ( But I doubt anyone will listen to it but I will say it anyway )

intend off the Fastest lap time from each team determination wear each car will start in the race why not have the fastest laps from 2 drivers ? e.g.

12hrs races:
Team name: what ever
2 fastest laps from the drivers from the team
Tom 1.32.4
Mike 1.33.2

Overall lap time : 3.05.6

Because in the pass you would get a team in A lobby because off 1 driver doing a good lap time and everyone else in the team cannot do A lobby pace or don't have the driving standards to be in A lobby. With this system for a team to be in A lobby they would have to off had 2 or more good drives. And for 24hrs racing its goes up to 3 drivers e.g..

24hrs races:
Team name: what ever
3 fastest laps from the drivers from the team
Tom 1.32.4
Mike 1.33.2
Kate 1.34.1

Overall lap time : 4.39.7

If this was implemented, and I don't know why it shouldn't be, I feel it should be every member of the team has to set a time in qualifying. Then you get an overall team average lap time.

The British 1st wrote:SEE ABOVE, REMOVING SO WE DON'T SPAM

That's not a bad idea, still doesn't stop a team having 2 good drivers and 1 bad but it's better than nothing.

I'll discuss this with staff but I'm sure something can be done about it.

Could always make all drivers run a quali and do an average but would need more help from community to get all the data entered, formula to calculate this wouldn't be hard though.
so
Tom 1.32.4
Mike 1.33.2
would be a 1:32.8

I'll see what we can come up with

Seems smithy beat me to it lol

Added along with overall team qual a fia like rating.... for all members ... I know it hasn't worked in the past but I think we could pull it off now

The British 1st wrote:

HCR TJSteel wrote:

F4H Chrisupra wrote:This combination of uber fast and uber slow guys on the same teams is something I wish could be addressed. You have a guy who puts his team in the top 3 and then a guy comes in who is way off pace and it causes all sorts of problems and said driver cannot handle the situation or pressure and we have accidents.

Not exactly sure how we can address this, other than making every driver do quali and the team is placed on the podium based on the team's averaged out lap? But then again we'd have an issue where an emergency driver could sub for a team and do the same.

If you got any idea's let me know and I'll see what I can do about it.

I got an idea ( But I doubt anyone will listen to it but I will say it anyway )

intend off the Fastest lap time from each team determination wear each car will start in the race why not have the fastest laps from 2 drivers ? e.g.

12hrs races:
Team name: what ever
2 fastest laps from the drivers from the team
Tom 1.32.4
Mike 1.33.2

Overall lap time : 3.05.6

Because in the pass you would get a team in A lobby because off 1 driver doing a good lap time and everyone else in the team cannot do A lobby pace or don't have the driving standards to be in A lobby. With this system for a team to be in A lobby they would have to off had 2 or more good drives. And for 24hrs racing its goes up to 3 drivers e.g..

24hrs races:
Team name: what ever
3 fastest laps from the drivers from the team
Tom 1.32.4
Mike 1.33.2
Kate 1.34.1

Overall lap time : 4.39.7

This is a great idea

Or just get the average from the quickest times and do it that way

Isn't that qualifying method also used in WEC?
Seems to work rather well there so we can implement it here.

One thing I will say about it is that if you force everyone into having to a qualifying lap, what happens if it there is one person from the team that can't make a session but can make the race? I personally would suggest 3 people out of the team have to qualify unless it's a 2 man team then of course it would be 2. That way you're getting a good average without throwing a car out of position because 1 person couldn't make qually.

If someone had a team of two drivers and only one could qualify. Would a fair way to do it get there second lap from an average time of there class? (1st/20th)
not sure if thats fair or not totally however it but rewards teams who do put two drivers in?

However could it easy to sandbag quali with this formula??

That's a pretty darn idea!

ok, I'm not trying to throw a stick in the spokes with this but

For a team full of Australians/Kiwis or even just having either of those in the team, it becomes very difficult as we are getting ready for or at school, uni or work.

I do like the idea, average lap time or combine all 3, and it will have kinks that have to be ironed out as a lot of things do at the beginning, but IF we can make it work, then I'm for it

I think the best way for this to be fair so that we make people benefit by having all drivers quali, the idea of this after all is to stop 1 slower driver ending up in a fast team.

All drivers in a team must qualify, your qualifying time is then an average of all drivers,

If 1 of your members is unable to qualify, (which to be honest shouldn't happen as we have more than enough people who know how to run a quali session) their time is set to the slowest qualifying time in class + 1 second

This way you can't just not qualify and get a better time.

We have a whole week for quali so I'm sure everyone could spare half an hour to put a lap in, remember you don't have to run the whole session. If you can't make a session then message a marshall and I'm sure we can sort something out for you

Sorry but so many people need to work during the week and you cant force everyone to drive at this times.

with that plan you will artificially build just pro and noob teams. For example our Xbox Motorsport AM Team drives qualifyign times between 1 second! We are a mixed team and thats because we are friends and not because everyone is a total fast guy.

so...with my fastest time in qualifyign (P5) we finished (with slower qualifying times) at P4...thats because we almost raced clean and constant - and thats racing.

Also the qualifyign time has nothing to do with clean driving. If you set the fastest time you also can be the bigest idiot that crash every LMP!

Furthermore - what happens if we start after a qualifiygn with 3 or 4 guys from the team? correct - everyone will stay on his position the whole race - no one will or can overtake. so you will destroy the heart of racing.

So what you do is wishfull thinking that just brings silly rules that destroy the motorsport like in almost every modern racing league in real life.

If it stops sandbagging then we should do it

AdamWatson99 wrote:If it stops sandbagging then we should do it

Sandbagging is hard to monitor. You'll only pick up on obvious cases like the likes of ourselves or F4H winding up mid pack of bottom lobby.

Personally I don't like it, I like it the way it is.

Why not just have every one on the team qualify, and then setup every stint based on individual qualifying times. It's an enduro, so which lobby your in shouldn't effect final position. Why make it more complicated than it really needs to be?

Redman-Racer wrote:Why not just have every one on the team qualify, and then setup every stint based on individual qualifying times. It's an enduro, so which lobby your in shouldn't effect final position. Why make it more complicated than it really needs to be?

Different lobby for each driver in a team? Thats the most complicated thing I ever heard.

I'd have to see what stints each driver is doing, then arrange each team into a different lobby depending which driver is in the car, then what happens when there is a last minute change, do I move a driver to another lobby and max the lobby out or worse move a host from one to another and end up with both hosts in the same lobby?

The idea of it isn't bad but trying to implement that would be impossible.