Re: TORA GT S9 - General Discussion

by Hainesy Wed 5 Sep 2012 - 15:23

CQR Cobblepop wrote:I don't want to start a whole debate about this as this is nothing more than a simple enquiry but I was wondering what the purpose of a rolling start is at all?

If it is intended as a way to equalise the performance of FWD & RWD cars off the line then I would say fair enough, but if it is employed as a measure to prevent 1st corner accidents etc then I would question the validity of such a method.

I see no evidence that rolling starts are a safer way to begin a race, in fact I would say that we see evidence to the contrary.

The only thing you would miss if it was a standing start is the ability to shuffle the pack into the correct order on the parade lap. Otherwise you have to restart the lobby (with the danger that someone can't get back in the lobby) and do a lap to set the grid.

by CRA Project182R Wed 5 Sep 2012 - 15:32

CQR Cobblepop wrote:I don't want to start a whole debate about this as this is nothing more than a simple enquiry but I was wondering what the purpose of a rolling start is at all?

If it is intended as a way to equalise the performance of FWD & RWD cars off the line then I would say fair enough, but if it is employed as a measure to prevent 1st corner accidents etc then I would question the validity of such a method.

I see no evidence that rolling starts are a safer way to begin a race, in fact I would say that we see evidence to the contrary.

I've only ever been to one GT race at Silverstone back in 2008 or 2009 and that was a rolling start, I think it's done to emulate the real thing. **Only think because I don't follow it too closely**

by CQR Cobblepop Wed 5 Sep 2012 - 16:12

BG Hainesy wrote:
CQR Cobblepop wrote:I don't want to start a whole debate about this as this is nothing more than a simple enquiry but I was wondering what the purpose of a rolling start is at all?

If it is intended as a way to equalise the performance of FWD & RWD cars off the line then I would say fair enough, but if it is employed as a measure to prevent 1st corner accidents etc then I would question the validity of such a method.

I see no evidence that rolling starts are a safer way to begin a race, in fact I would say that we see evidence to the contrary.
The only thing you would miss if it was a standing start is the ability to shuffle the pack into the correct order on the parade lap. Otherwise you have to restart the lobby (with the danger that someone can't get back in the lobby) and do a lap to set the grid.

Good point. If you weigh-up the hassle of getting people into lobbies against the problems with a rolling start, I think I'd be inclined to go with the rolling start Neutral

It's the lesser of two evils Evil or Very Mad

by **CQR Rogue** Wed 5 Sep 2012 - 16:40

race with ghosts!!!!!!!!!! lol lol!

by **HCR ChicaiN** Wed 5 Sep 2012 - 17:07

CMGraphix wrote:OK, but then what if the person shouting GO GO GO, some at the front have a connection block which doesn't allow them to hear the first 2 GOs, then everyone is bunched up at turn 1 for another safety car. If people cannot hear 321, what makes you think they'll hear GO GO GO?

Surely just say 3,2,1 louder. Whatever, the fact people are nose to tail and its the whole lobby. Thats it, maybe also people will drive with a bit more caution.

We ran 5 seasons of SPAZCAR, another version of stock car racing. We had a lot of cautions throughout the series and we tried all three methods mentioned:

watching the clock: Great idea in theory but people constantly missed the time and it ended up worse. Taking off from a dead stop by time works really well. The best actually.

3-2-1 GO: Because of mic lag people either miss the count (really, this happens ALOT) or some of it. I've heard the count really fast and really slow. It is hard to make a consistent call when you're counting down from person to person. This is a very inconsistent way to start races with too much room for error.

DRIVERS READY...GO GO GO: It took us two seasons of 3-2-1 GO to implement this system and it worked flawlessly. There were no jumps and everyone basically hit the gas at the exact same time. It is impossible to jump the starts with this method and the last place guy should always make this call. Everyone in the room is far more likely to hear shouting GO's than a count down to a GO. I'm tellin you this from a ton of experience with both methods in a series with a crap ton of cautions. It also took the SPAZCAR coordinator a couple of seasons to realize limited or simulation damage on oval races was a bad idea and cost the series participants. Once the cosmetic damage was put into place on ovals people miraculously showed up more.

Just try it...you won't be disappointed. Can't get any worse. Cheers

by **HCR ChicaiN** Wed 5 Sep 2012 - 17:08

CQR Cobblepop wrote:
BG Hainesy wrote:
CQR Cobblepop wrote:I don't want to start a whole debate about this as this is nothing more than a simple enquiry but I was wondering what the purpose of a rolling start is at all?

If it is intended as a way to equalise the performance of FWD & RWD cars off the line then I would say fair enough, but if it is employed as a measure to prevent 1st corner accidents etc then I would question the validity of such a method.

I see no evidence that rolling starts are a safer way to begin a race, in fact I would say that we see evidence to the contrary.
The only thing you would miss if it was a standing start is the ability to shuffle the pack into the correct order on the parade lap. Otherwise you have to restart the lobby (with the danger that someone can't get back in the lobby) and do a lap to set the grid.

Good point. If you weigh-up the hassle of getting people into lobbies against the problems with a rolling start, I think I'd be inclined to go with the rolling start

It's the lesser of two evils

You don't have to restart the lobby. I'm really surprised a single lap race to set the grid isn't used more often.

by CQR Cobblepop Wed 5 Sep 2012 - 17:37

As far as I'm aware you would need to restart the lobby for the second race. When I say 'restart' I don't mean you have to re-invite everyone but you would need to back out to reset the lobby points, which can sometimes be problematic in itself.

by **Biggsy tv** Wed 5 Sep 2012 - 17:46

CQR Cobblepop wrote:As far as I'm aware you would need to restart the lobby for the second race. When I say 'restart' I don't mean you have to re-invite everyone but you would need to back out to reset the lobby points, which can sometimes be problematic in itself.

This. We've learnt through FM4 that 2 invites at a time works best. 3 at a time or more, sometimes is too much and those three always bump out. Resetting the lobby for race two, EVERYONE gets bumped out, and we start from square 1

by Adder 020 Wed 5 Sep 2012 - 18:39

And the first lap parade lap and then put you car on the grid for start finish?
( like F1).
Last car gives a signal that he is ready.
Pole car within 3 seconds GO, GO, GO.

by CQR Deuce Wed 5 Sep 2012 - 18:47

I'm not a fan of the rolling start but either method you use has no bearing on first corner incidents in my opinion. It boils down to the drivers and whether or not they use their head and show just basic situational race awareness and understanding they aren't the only people on the track.

I do like the idea of the last driver on the grid giving "all good sign" and then having the lead driver calling the green flag!

by **HCR ChicaiN** Wed 5 Sep 2012 - 20:06

Sorry...but, the lead driver should NEVER call the green flag. Too easy to jump your own call. Happens all too often. It would appear that TORA tries to duplicate real race series rules but you will never find a multiple car race where the first place dude just takes off yelling go.

I am also not a fan of rolling starts. Never have been. Instead of copying what real race series do (not everything they do makes sense and is also due to being in real cars on real tracks), it would be best to do what's best for THIS game and the competitors. It's not real driving. There's no flag dude, no crew chief in your ear giving you instructions or yelling go! The only 100% dumb-proof way to start a race is from the grid stopped using the games GO. Bottom line...you have to appeal to the masses to keep the masses coming back for more. I'd rather add three laps to the races to give the reverse grid ample time to catch the leaders since they do deserve ample time to get to where they belong and earned. Basically...I think the parade lap is a waste of potentially good replay and race time.

Just my opinion. Nothing pesonal against anyone. Obviously, everyone likely has ideas to make the race experiences more fun. The only way to hear of them is to speak of them. I'll be at the races regardless of how they're started.

by XPR Roadrunner Wed 5 Sep 2012 - 20:18

BloodYCaiN wrote:Sorry...but, the lead driver should NEVER call the green flag. Too easy to jump your own call. Happens all too often. It would appear that TORA tries to duplicate real race series rules but you will never find a multiple car race where the first place dude just takes off yelling go.

I am also not a fan of rolling starts. Never have been. Instead of copying what real race series do (not everything they do makes sense and is also due to being in real cars on real tracks), it would be best to do what's best for THIS game and the competitors. It's not real driving. There's no flag dude, no crew chief in your ear giving you instructions or yelling go! The only 100% dumb-proof way to start a race is from the grid stopped using the games GO. Bottom line...you have to appeal to the masses to keep the masses coming back for more. I'd rather add three laps to the races to give the reverse grid ample time to catch the leaders since they do deserve ample time to get to where they belong and earned. Basically...I think the parade lap is a waste of potentially good replay and race time.

Just my opinion. Nothing pesonal against anyone. Obviously, everyone likely has ideas to make the race experiences more fun. The only way to hear of them is to speak of them. I'll be at the races regardless of how they're started.

or use the FormulaForza method, which is the closest thing to the real F1 as it gets. We do a parade lap to get the starting grid settled, then we get set up into the grid boxes (or use 20ft between pos. if track doesn't have them, ie. Road Atlanta). We then pick a point on the race timer when the last car is in place, then we go at said point. We then use the replay to assess if someone jumped the start.

OR you can ammend this for rolling starts (if RS's are what everyone wants) just pick a spot on the race timer when we are all formed up and go from there.

In FormulaForza, it never fails and everyone loves it (as far as I know).

by **HCR ChicaiN** Wed 5 Sep 2012 - 20:25

mopar4t4 wrote:
BloodYCaiN wrote:Sorry...but, the lead driver should NEVER call the green flag. Too easy to jump your own call. Happens all too often. It would appear that TORA tries to duplicate real race series rules but you will never find a multiple car race where the first place dude just takes off yelling go.

I am also not a fan of rolling starts. Never have been. Instead of copying what real race series do (not everything they do makes sense and is also due to being in real cars on real tracks), it would be best to do what's best for THIS game and the competitors. It's not real driving. There's no flag dude, no crew chief in your ear giving you instructions or yelling go! The only 100% dumb-proof way to start a race is from the grid stopped using the games GO. Bottom line...you have to appeal to the masses to keep the masses coming back for more. I'd rather add three laps to the races to give the reverse grid ample time to catch the leaders since they do deserve ample time to get to where they belong and earned. Basically...I think the parade lap is a waste of potentially good replay and race time.

Just my opinion. Nothing pesonal against anyone. Obviously, everyone likely has ideas to make the race experiences more fun. The only way to hear of them is to speak of them. I'll be at the races regardless of how they're started.

or use the FormulaForza method, which is the closest thing to the real F1 as it gets. We do a parade lap to get the starting grid settled, then we get set up into the grid boxes (or use 20ft between pos. if track doesn't have them, ie. Road Atlanta). We then pick a point on the race timer when the last car is in place, then we go at said point. We then use the replay to assess if someone jumped the start.

OR you can ammend this for rolling starts (if RS's are what everyone wants) just pick a spot on the race timer when we are all formed up and go from there.

In FormulaForza, it never fails and everyone loves it (as far as I know).

Formula Forza's starts from stop DO work really well.

by **CQR Rogue** Wed 5 Sep 2012 - 20:31

or people could learn to drive..........

by **CQR Rogue** Wed 5 Sep 2012 - 20:34

and take more care and stop playing bumper cars

by **HCR ChicaiN** Wed 5 Sep 2012 - 20:43

SelectiveRogue wrote:or people could learn to drive..........

lol...what do you think will happen first?

by Beanz Wed 5 Sep 2012 - 21:21

SelectiveRogue wrote:and take more care and stop playing bumper cars

This.

For some reason people just got mental in some races, i just don't get it scratch

by **HCR ChicaiN** Wed 5 Sep 2012 - 21:27

I'm just kidding. I think everyone on here for the most part can drive pretty damn well. Everyone has to remember that we aren't in real cars. We have severe disadvantages with lack of depth perception, peripherals and basic human senses. Mistakes happen.

by CQR Senna Wed 5 Sep 2012 - 22:04

SelectiveRogue wrote:or people could learn to drive..........

Lmao!

by F4H Bullet Wed 5 Sep 2012 - 22:33

SelectiveRogue wrote:or people could learn to drive..........

+1

by HCR generaltso Wed 5 Sep 2012 - 22:42

people need to realize that you're not going to win the race on the first lap, but you can certainly lose it.

also, a little respect would go a long way. not everything has to be a GD shitshow

by **CQR Rogue** Wed 5 Sep 2012 - 22:44

gen3ral ts0 wrote:people need to realize that you're not going to win the race on the first lap, but you can certainly lose it.

also, a little respect would go a long way. not everything has to be a GD shitshow

+1

by CQR HABURi Wed 5 Sep 2012 - 22:54

by F4H bandicoot Wed 5 Sep 2012 - 23:06

SelectiveRogue wrote:or people could learn to drive..........

by Guest Thu 6 Sep 2012 - 12:57

SelectiveRogue wrote:or people could learn to drive..........

Nothing wrong with the rules IMO

Rules don't causes crashes, drivers do...

by Sponsored content