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TORA TEC 12 hours of Silverstone General Discussion

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Post by Richy59 Thu 29 Aug 2013 - 20:14

No, they are the same as the TCC as stated in the rules.


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Post by Ax4x Cowboy Thu 29 Aug 2013 - 20:22

I don't think Worm is accusing anyone of anything but who's to say that the situation he mentioned couldn't, wouldn't or didn't happen.

If someone saw GTE was filling up quick and was awaiting confirmation from their team mates about availability etc. then they could quite easily use a few placeholders.
Anyone could enter multiple teams and completely change the driver lineup in every car - but they'd still have the cars whereas the first team to be denied a spot due to allocation limits could have been waiting to sort that all out before they signed up.

Personally I would like to see it where drivers (+1 spare driver) are locked into the team and car they sign up with - the minimum number of drivers being 3 (2 drivers + 1 spare) for a 12hr and 4 (3 drivers + 1 spare) for a 24hr team. If all drivers + their designated spare driver can make it then the spare driver can do 1 stint in the 12hr or 2 stints in the 24hr races.

Larger teams = more people racing with the same amount of places/cars/lobbies available.
More space to accomodate newcomers while not forcing the established teams out.
No extra burden placed on staff to organise an increased number of lobbies.


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Post by Texaspotatolord Thu 29 Aug 2013 - 20:25

Why three for 12 hours and 4 for 24? You don't need that many for either race. It's a waste of time to find drivers you don't need.

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Post by Ax4x Bandit Thu 29 Aug 2013 - 21:02

Texaspotatolord wrote:Why three for 12 hours and 4 for 24? You don't need that many for either race. It's a waste of time to find drivers you don't need.
Having four drivers does make it a lot easier on all the drivers. I was going to enter in a four driver team: two of them doing one stint and the other two doing two stints.


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Post by Texaspotatolord Thu 29 Aug 2013 - 21:06

I hate just getting in for a stint though. Four people in a 12 Hour Race just makes it boring for me.

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Post by Ax4x Bandit Thu 29 Aug 2013 - 21:13

It does also help free up space and provides more people with a chance to race.


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Post by TheAngryPudding Thu 29 Aug 2013 - 21:18

Some people can't commit to do 2-3 stints, for instance, I work until 1530 on a Saturday and my fiancée gets home from work at 1830, I'd lose a testicle if I did a second stint as apparently she likes spending time with me...

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Post by SorrySmithy Thu 29 Aug 2013 - 21:19

Looks like in GTE only 8 out of the 24 teams racing raced GTE at both the Sebring and Le Mans endurance races.

What a shame

Devalues the TEC Championship element for me, and many others.

Looks like at least one of the BG's championship quest is over.
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Post by Richy59 Thu 29 Aug 2013 - 21:58

As I said, you can enter the TCC class and still keep the same points for the TEC Teams Championship. GTE is just a class. Yes, I agree that it would be good to stay in the same class - like M&M Racing has done GTE for the first two rounds - but we will enter in TCC and still score points towards our Teams Championship.


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Post by Ax4x Chaddy Thu 29 Aug 2013 - 22:04

race stint thread should have been opened by now?
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Post by Hailfire97x Thu 29 Aug 2013 - 22:12

Honestly, I hate 4-driver teams for a 12hr race. I WOULD have thrown another car together, but I thought it would have been douchey to take up that many spots when they're already very limited.

At the same time, I'm still looking at possibly another car or two for TCC, since no one who missed GT seems to want to capitalize.
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Post by Hailfire97x Thu 29 Aug 2013 - 22:14

BG Smithy wrote:Looks like in GTE only 8 out of the 24 teams racing raced GTE at both the Sebring and Le Mans endurance races.

What a shame

Devalues the TEC Championship element for me, and many others.
Yeah, but take into account that LMP1 teams aren't going to necessarily jump into a TCC just so GTE drivers can keep their GTE cars. Drivers who want to be in the fastest tiered class in the race will stay that way, therefore a few LMP teams went to GTE.
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Post by Ax4x Kane Thu 29 Aug 2013 - 23:17

BG Cowboy wrote:I for one don't envy the position the staff are in right now
Absolutely spot on. They're in a position where they're damned if they do & damned if they don't.
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Post by F4H Hakkinen Thu 29 Aug 2013 - 23:29

F4H got absolutely shafted the first time around. We got none of the cars we wanted in the first two races but the show must go on. We at the time did express our frustration but as time passed we realised there is not much to be done about it and we moved on. Everyone had an equal and fair chance to get their cars. We just got unlucky and that's how it goes.

We took the time to monitor the TORA site and we were organised long before the registration thread was made. We've learned over time that you need to be prepared in order to increase your chances of being selected/getting those cars. We do more than our fair share of testing and reading. You just need to be ready for the registration and hope for the best. We posted at the very second the clock struck 9PM and we did this because we knew their was a limit on spaces - we knew people would do the same thing.

Maybe there is a better way to do this. I'm not sure how we can. I think lifting the car cap was essential and who know's, maybe with some support from the community then Richy, Selective and the other admins can consider an extra lobby. I know when we felt unjust about the cars before Sebring I opted to help the guys and I offered them ALL of our F4H testing, builds and times from many many series and events from 2011 right up until Le Mans.

I have not read every page of this and maybe this has already been suggested. I do feel for the guys who missed out on GTe. I know i'd be gutted but lets support the admins and offer alternatives. They will listen to you and take it onboard.

Looking forward to this event.
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Post by Guest Fri 30 Aug 2013 - 0:00

Thank you Chrisupra, you have provided some very fair, and good points.

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Post by Hailfire97x Fri 30 Aug 2013 - 0:04

Eh, I don't much agree with lifting the car cap--the spec race was last month and no one bothered to participate, and all we have now is a Corvette spec race in GTE Rolling Eyes 
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Post by Guest Fri 30 Aug 2013 - 0:09

Don't assume it will be a Corvette whitewash just because lots of people have chosen it... Last year's pole sitter for this race and reigning GT champion is in a Lambo, and there are many other great drivers in race winning cars (Ferrari, Jag, BMW etc) Smile 

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Post by theboomeranga Fri 30 Aug 2013 - 0:16

could not have said it better myself Chris!

and i agree with MAGiC, just because the field has a lot of Corvettes or a lot of BMW/Civics/Megans (TCC) does not mean they will dominate, it's a long race, a lot can and will (inevitably) happen
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Post by Ax4x Cowboy Fri 30 Aug 2013 - 0:50

Hailfire - I didn't say you needed a 4 man team to run a 12hr. If 3 drivers want to run 2 stints each you would enter a 3 man team with 1 extra spare driver. The spare driver doesn't need to be used but is there to offer a level of redundancy and flexibility that I felt would be needed if teams were to be locked in during the registration phase.

The problem as I see it is that in order to promote the event effectively outside of TORA you need spaces in both classes to attract new people. If one class is full in 12 hours then you only have a small window of time to remind potential newcomers who would be interested in racing in that class.

If class/lobby limits aren't to be raised then we, as a community, need to look for alternatives in order to achieve success and growth in both the present and future. I'm just trying to put one idea out there but it'd be good to hear what other ideas are out there. Smile


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Post by F4H bandicoot Fri 30 Aug 2013 - 0:54

Hailfire97x wrote:Eh, I don't much agree with lifting the car cap--the spec race was last month and no one bothered to participate, and all we have now is a Corvette spec race in GTE Rolling Eyes 
Surely if it was a spec race everybody would be in Corvettes?

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Post by ShrinkingSteven Fri 30 Aug 2013 - 1:00

Im sure the only Porsche will mix things up. Cool 
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Post by XPR Roadrunner Fri 30 Aug 2013 - 1:04

Its more than likely a lobby will be at least half vettes. Agreed it won't be the dominate car as this track and car combo doesn't suit it as well as Sebring and especially Le mans. Regardless its just a numbers game... But we'll see how it turns out. But I say bring it!
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Post by XPR Roadrunner Fri 30 Aug 2013 - 1:06

Note that's a single lobby and not A lobby
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Post by Ax4x Kane Fri 30 Aug 2013 - 1:12

We should just let these last two races roll out. First year teething problems and current gen hardware meant it was never going to be plain sailing. Let's wait for next gen when we could should have at least 32 in a lobby.
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Post by Hailfire97x Fri 30 Aug 2013 - 1:18

BG Cowboy wrote:Hailfire - I didn't say you needed a 4 man team to run a 12hr. If 3 drivers want to run 2 stints each you would enter a 3 man team with 1 extra spare driver. The spare driver doesn't need to be used but is there to offer a level of redundancy and flexibility that I felt would be needed if teams were to be locked in during the registration phase.
The problem I have with this is how you'll either use that guy, or you won't. The bad part would be if you don't use him, you took away that guy's day and however long he practiced for the end-result of him doing absolutely nothing. I don't think we need spare-drivers; however, I do like how TORA required a minimum of 2 drivers per car on signups. It did make sure people had an idea of what they were running for the race, or at least have enough people to justify the cars they registered. The 1-person-per-entry thing we had at Le Mans and Sebring was a joke. However, I easily see why leaving 2 drivers open would be helpful, as you might have all your people, but need to organize them.


The problem as I see it is that in order to promote the event effectively outside of TORA you need spaces in both classes to attract new people. If one class is full in 12 hours then you only have a small window of time to remind potential newcomers who would be interested in racing in that class.

If class/lobby limits aren't to be raised then we, as a community, need to look for alternatives in order to achieve success and growth in both the present and future. I'm just trying to put one idea out there but it'd be good to hear what other ideas are out there. Smile
The problem is, though, there aren't any good alternatives. TORA has to cap the entry list somewhere, and unless you think we need a 12:3 ratio of GTE-to-TCC, there's no way to adjust this from how it is. We can only wait until 2014 and the mythically-expanded lobby size before we can make things better than they are. Neutral 
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