TORA Endurance Championship - General Discussion

LSEM The Butler wrote:Anyone got the pace for the proto at suzukua?

probably a low 41

I did a few laps, got low 42s.

TORA TEC UPDATE

BOP Changes for Suzuka

2017 Aston martin GT3 - BUFF - 854 PI. - 1 Front Tyre Width 2 Rear Tyre Widths

BMW - No Change

Chevy - NERF - loses 1 rear tyre Width

Ferrari - No Change

Ford - NERF - Loses 1 REAR Tyre Width

Porsche - BUFF - 1 front Tyre Width Added


AVERAGE LAPTIMES

These Laptimes are the Average from people within the Dev Team

2:01,979 - Aston Martin
2:01,615 - BMW
2:01,804 - Chevy
2:02,116 - Ferrari
2:01,751 - Ford
2:02,222 - Porsche


If you have any issues or feel our Data is wrong.. Please supply is with adequate Data of your Findings thanks..

Hope you Enjoy testing the new Builds

Someone tell me how this is balanced please. With 1 week before qualifying half the builds have changed and the BMW is blatantly quickest and one of the friendliest cars to drive. I think these cars should be balanced by someone outside of the series so that these builds don't appear biased. Not saying they were built with a BMW bias solar, I know you're not like that but by God it exists rn

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May I suggest in the future opening these builds as soon as they're considered, tweeting them out and asking people to post times for all cars so that a proper average can be established

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LSEM The Butler wrote:Someone tell me how this is balanced please. With 1 week before qualifying half the builds have changed and the BMW is blatantly quickest and one of the friendliest cars to drive. I think these cars should be balanced by someone outside of the series so that these builds don't appear biased. Not saying they were built with a BMW bias solar, I know you're not like that but by God it exists rn

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Saying the BMW is blatantly quickest would have to be supported by some data please. The data that has been collected over the past week or 2 has shown all cars to be very equal and fairly balanced by several drivers in our Development Team. And some cars still being a few tenths quicker than the BMW.

The fact that the suggested builds came from Harmonic, (who is racing in LMP) means that by definition it came from outside the series, for he benefits in no way. And with Staff and Development Team all driving different cars the balancing is natural.

LSEM The Butler wrote:May I suggest in the future opening these builds as soon as they're considered, tweeting them out and asking people to post times for all cars so that a proper average can be established

The reason for us having a Development Team is so that we dont need to ask the community to test the cars. The data would be inconsistent and would take too long to retrieve depending on what amounts of time people have. Our development team is made up of people who race different classes and at different speeds to make it as fair as possible across the board.

LSEM The Butler wrote:Someone tell me how this is balanced please.

It's balanced because I and the rest of the Dev Team agreed that it's balanced.

LSEM The Butler wrote:...the BMW is blatantly quickest and one of the friendliest cars to drive.

You have data to back that up? You ran times in all 6 cars with proper tunes like we did and have data to show that the BMW is significantly faster? If so, please show it here.

LSEM The Butler wrote:I think these cars should be balanced by someone outside of the series so that these builds don't appear biased. Not saying they were built with a BMW bias solar, I know you're not like that but by God it exists rn

That's funny, because I'm the one who came up with these builds, and I'm not even in GT.

Seriously, quit wasting everyone's time with posts like these. If you have data to support this claim, show it. If not, this is nothing but an empty complaint aimed at the teams you keep losing to.

I appreciate all the effort that goes on behind the scenes to balance the cars.

People complaining about BoP IS 'As real as it gets'



One question though; why are the builds revised for each round? Is this to minimise testing at the start of the season? So that people can find more time to test between races than in one chunk? To balance them as closely as possible on a race-by-race basis rather than throughout the calendar?

I personally enjoy seeing the ebb and flow of cars up and down the order as tracks play to their strengths and weaknesses. I understand that can generate its own set of issues but keeping on top of builds when they are changing each race can be difficult too, especially when the post can get buried in the general discussion thread or the post in the Carlist thread is just edited rather than announced with a reply or noted in the Drivers Briefing for the round. Perhaps this is something to consider going forward?

BG Cowboy wrote:I appreciate all the effort that goes on behind the scenes to balance the cars.

People complaining about BoP IS 'As real as it gets'



One question though; why are the builds revised for each round? Is this to minimise testing at the start of the season? So that people can find more time to test between races than in one chunk? To balance them as closely as possible on a race-by-race basis rather than throughout the calendar?

I personally enjoy seeing the ebb and flow of cars up and down the order as tracks play to their strengths and weaknesses. I understand that can generate its own set of issues but keeping on top of builds when they are changing each race can be difficult too, especially when the post can get buried in the general discussion thread or the post in the Carlist thread is just edited rather than announced with a reply or noted in the Drivers Briefing for the round. Perhaps this is something to consider going forward?

Originally we planned for Whole Season but when me and Vortex (Prop3r12) only had a week to plan for that it came with it own issues as i was in Murica at the time...

So after speaking with Ben i think we have agreed we will do BoP for every circuit... it may become a bit more Taxing Depending on the Dates and what happens in the future but for now it's the best we can do unless Forza Gives us Balanced Cars without us having to Balance it ourselves....

SVR Solar wrote:

BG Cowboy wrote:I appreciate all the effort that goes on behind the scenes to balance the cars.

People complaining about BoP IS 'As real as it gets'



One question though; why are the builds revised for each round? Is this to minimise testing at the start of the season? So that people can find more time to test between races than in one chunk? To balance them as closely as possible on a race-by-race basis rather than throughout the calendar?

I personally enjoy seeing the ebb and flow of cars up and down the order as tracks play to their strengths and weaknesses. I understand that can generate its own set of issues but keeping on top of builds when they are changing each race can be difficult too, especially when the post can get buried in the general discussion thread or the post in the Carlist thread is just edited rather than announced with a reply or noted in the Drivers Briefing for the round. Perhaps this is something to consider going forward?

Originally we planned for Whole Season but when me and Vortex (Prop3r12) only had a week to plan for that it came with it own issues as i was in Murica at the time...

So after speaking with Ben i think we have agreed we will do BoP for every circuit... it may become a bit more Taxing Depending on the Dates and what happens in the future but for now it's the best we can do unless Forza Gives us Balanced Cars without us having to Balance it ourselves....

There are a couple of things that I am complaining about so imma just lay them out:
1. Primarily my quarrel is with the late release of these builds after we've been practising for a couple of weeks with just 1 week until qualifying. with no build change for the bmw this means that they are already more comfortable in the car then the rest.
2. The build changes are either biased to the bmw or are represented wrong if they are balanced. In my opinion the preliminary build changes should be released outside of a fortnight from the race and have a lobby where races are done with each of the cars to get a good sample size for the build changes. The system for the changes just needs to be adjusted rn since again either the BMW IS op or it appears so from a too small sample size.

Qualifying is within 2 weeks just so yano....

LSEM The Butler wrote:There are a couple of things that I am complaining about so imma just lay them out:
1. Primarily my quarrel is with the late release of these builds after we've been practising for a couple of weeks with just 1 week until qualifying. with no build change for the bmw this means that they are already more comfortable in the car then the rest.
2. The build changes are either biased to the bmw or are represented wrong if they are balanced. In my opinion the preliminary build changes should be released outside of a fortnight from the race and have a lobby where races are done with each of the cars to get a good sample size for the build changes. The system for the changes just needs to be adjusted rn since again either the BMW IS op or it appears so from a too small sample size.

1. There are 2 weeks until qualifying. Race on November 10th and qualifying the week leading up to that. The builds haven't changed drastically only for the Aston which needs some aid grip wise.

2. The builds are in no way biased to the BMW. As I have already stated other cars are still a couple tenths quicker than it. The build changes are outside of a fortnight so I don't understand your complaint. The times are the average from several drivers where people are naturally more suited to one than the other. So please supply your own data and proof of the unfairness of the cars if you wish for changes to be made.

LSEM The Butler wrote:There are a couple of things that I am complaining about so imma just lay them out:
1. Primarily my quarrel is with the late release of these builds after we've been practising for a couple of weeks with just 1 week until qualifying. with no build change for the bmw this means that they are already more comfortable in the car then the rest.

If losing a tire width makes you completely relearn your car, then you have issues that no amount of BoP can solve.

LSEM The Butler wrote:2. The build changes are either biased to the bmw or are represented wrong if they are balanced. In my opinion the preliminary build changes should be released outside of a fortnight from the race and have a lobby where races are done with each of the cars to get a good sample size for the build changes. The system for the changes just needs to be adjusted rn since again either the BMW IS op or it appears so from a too small sample size.

Again, prove it. Show us a list of your times in each car. If you can't do this, your complaint has no support, and no action will be taken.

DriftiNHero wrote:

LSEM The Butler wrote:There are a couple of things that I am complaining about so imma just lay them out:
1. Primarily my quarrel is with the late release of these builds after we've been practising for a couple of weeks with just 1 week until qualifying. with no build change for the bmw this means that they are already more comfortable in the car then the rest.
2. The build changes are either biased to the bmw or are represented wrong if they are balanced. In my opinion the preliminary build changes should be released outside of a fortnight from the race and have a lobby where races are done with each of the cars to get a good sample size for the build changes. The system for the changes just needs to be adjusted rn since again either the BMW IS op or it appears so from a too small sample size.

1. There are 2 weeks until qualifying. Race on November 10th and qualifying the week leading up to that. The builds haven't changed drastically only for the Aston which needs some aid grip wise.

2. The builds are in no way biased to the BMW. As I have already stated other cars are still a couple tenths quicker than it. The build changes are outside of a fortnight so I don't understand your complaint. The times are the average from several drivers where people are naturally more suited to one than the other. So please supply your own data and proof of the unfairness of the cars if you wish for changes to be made.

Aight then, I'm a numpty with the dates, thought the race was a week sooner than it was. As for the builds, I'd rather be part of the solution than point a stick at the problem, so I'll put together a couple of testing lobbies where all the drivers will run 5 laps with each of the cars, compile the times, and send them in. You all are invited to help me out, I'll post the times for the lobbies in General Discussion and on twitter.

LSEM The Butler wrote:Aight then, I'm a numpty with the dates, thought the race was a week sooner than it was. As for the builds, I'd rather be part of the solution than point a stick at the problem, so I'll put together a couple of testing lobbies where all the drivers will run  5 laps with each of the cars, compile the times, and send them in. You all are invited to help me out, I'll post the times for the lobbies in General Discussion and on twitter.

Wait, so you haven't even started on this, yet you're making claims about OP cars... How can you expect anyone to take you seriously?

Just gonna re quote myself here

SVR Solar wrote:If you have any issues or feel our Data is wrong.. Please supply is with adequate Data of your Findings thanks..

SVR Solar wrote:
So after speaking with Ben i think we have agreed we will do BoP for every circuit... it may become a bit more Taxing Depending on the Dates and what happens in the future but for now it's the best we can do unless Forza Gives us Balanced Cars without us having to Balance it ourselves....

I haven't done any running in any of the cars and I'm not racing this round so I'm not planning on testing. I'm also not going to question whether the BoP is accurate because of what I've said in the previous sentence and also the lap times look relatively close, but just out of interest because the times with the current builds are posted what were the lap times like before the builds got changed?

FTR Vettel wrote:I haven't done any running in any of the cars and I'm not racing this round so I'm not planning on testing. I'm also not going to question whether the BoP is accurate because of what I've said in the previous sentence and also the lap times look relatively close, but just out of interest because the times with the current builds are posted what were the lap times like before the builds got changed?

The current builds with the times posted show a rough gap of about 6 tenths between all cars with several drivers having tested them.
Before the build change occured we were looking at a gap closer to 2 seconds from fastest to slowest.
This gap admittedly down to the Ford being a very grip based car and the Aston lacking in that sector.
Therefore we set a goal in the mid ground without making one car OP or another lacking too much.
Obviously some cars are still going to be quicker and more suited to each track but we achieved the best balance possible.

Please stop arguing about BOP being biased. The staff is trying whatever they can to make the cars as close as possible. Pls don't try and make this look like a inside job or whatever, it just isn't so move on and try to be the quickest and enjoy the racing.

unfortunately, due to the lack of time, Forza Team Poland GT and Forza Team Poland LMP has to withdraw

i hope we will see you soon ;]

Is it possible to do a qualifying session on Sunday the 25th at 20:00 UK time?
I can host it but I can't do a qualifying session alone.

Freheliaz wrote:Is it possible to do a qualifying session on Sunday the 25th at 20:00 UK time?
I can host it but I can't do a qualifying session alone.

so your wanting Sunday at 8pm? i'll speak to ben and see what we can sort out for you.. thanks for the early Notice though

But DO KNOW we have not finished the BoP Changes if possible we will try get it sorted but may not be able to so please bare with us...

Well I still had the race on December the 1st in my calendar.
But it got moved back a week to the 8th.
So I want to do a qualifying session on Sunday the 2nd of December.

Gives you enough time to get the BoP done.