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TORA MSA GT Meeting 8 - Road Atlanta (21st Oct)

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HCR generaltso
Ianmr
The Posimosh
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LMR Hydro
CRA XenoMorph
BDR BOX
Hainesy
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ART Carrera
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ATR DAN
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TORA MSA GT Meeting 8 - Road Atlanta (21st Oct) - Page 6 Empty Re: TORA MSA GT Meeting 8 - Road Atlanta (21st Oct)

Post by Guest Mon 22 Oct 2012 - 12:39

AFAIK, rFactor uses dedicated servers (i.e. one player is the host), so as long as that host has a fast upload/download it can support 100's of players (as each player is only uploaded and downloading from the host). Xbox is totally different model, no central host, so with 16 players in the room it is in effect the same as a 225 player 'hosted' room in terms of data transfer if you see what I mean lol

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TORA MSA GT Meeting 8 - Road Atlanta (21st Oct) - Page 6 Empty Re: TORA MSA GT Meeting 8 - Road Atlanta (21st Oct)

Post by CQR Rogue Mon 22 Oct 2012 - 12:45

yep defo we need dedicated servers which we could rent out
CQR Rogue
CQR Rogue

TORA Race Number : 47
Xbox One PC

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Post by Guest Mon 22 Oct 2012 - 12:50

Yeah! That is number 1 on my wish list for Forza 5 - please please please let us rent a server for running league races. Even people with slow (<0.4Mb) upload speeds would be able to race in 16 player lobbies then. The rented Xbox servers work well on Battlefield!

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TORA MSA GT Meeting 8 - Road Atlanta (21st Oct) - Page 6 Empty Re: TORA MSA GT Meeting 8 - Road Atlanta (21st Oct)

Post by Racert46 Mon 22 Oct 2012 - 12:53

So if you need 0.8Mbit (800kbit) "16 cars" for lag free racing why is TORA asking for "512K upload is considered the minimum for the lowest form of lag free gaming" in the introduction?

I think a problem also is that people are using wireless connections and those are not so stable as a wired one.
Racert46
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TORA Race Number : 46
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TORA MSA GT Meeting 8 - Road Atlanta (21st Oct) - Page 6 Empty Re: TORA MSA GT Meeting 8 - Road Atlanta (21st Oct)

Post by Guest Mon 22 Oct 2012 - 12:57

That's only from my own personal experience and testing, 512kbit will usually support 10-12 players, but 16 requires about 800kbit. As you say, there are other factors too such as wireless connections, but these typically show as cars 'shifting' around or jittering, whereas flying cars and massive lag bombs are usually upload saturation.

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TORA MSA GT Meeting 8 - Road Atlanta (21st Oct) - Page 6 Empty Re: TORA MSA GT Meeting 8 - Road Atlanta (21st Oct)

Post by CQR HABURi Mon 22 Oct 2012 - 14:23

To be honest, if there was a crash involving 5-6 cars in real life, they would throw the red flag and stop the race.
CQR HABURi
CQR HABURi

TORA Race Number : 618
Xbox One PC

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Post by Guest Mon 22 Oct 2012 - 14:41

If it was real life I'd be dead Shocked

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Post by CQR Cobblepop Mon 22 Oct 2012 - 14:42

Ianmr wrote:But he'll my race was wrecked yet you don't hear me whining like everyone else

Where you see whining, I see feedback.
CQR Cobblepop
CQR Cobblepop

TORA Race Number : 963
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Post by CQR HABURi Mon 22 Oct 2012 - 14:55

CQR MAGiC wrote:If it was real life I'd be dead Shocked

You don't have much faith in your car's rollcage do you. Razz
CQR HABURi
CQR HABURi

TORA Race Number : 618
Xbox One PC

Number of posts : 839
Location : Eastleigh, Hampshire
Registration date : 2012-02-11
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Post by CQR Rogue Mon 22 Oct 2012 - 15:25

14 players max, drivers that consistent lag and don't improve their connection which jeopardizes other drivers may not be allowed to race if connection improvements cant be made.

CQR Rogue
CQR Rogue

TORA Race Number : 47
Xbox One PC

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TORA MSA GT Meeting 8 - Road Atlanta (21st Oct) - Page 6 Empty Re: TORA MSA GT Meeting 8 - Road Atlanta (21st Oct)

Post by Hainesy Mon 22 Oct 2012 - 15:59

SelectiveRogue wrote:drivers that consistent lag and don't improve their connection which jeopardizes other drivers may not be allowed to race if connection improvements cant be made.

Will be extremely difficult to implement this as different people lag for each person. eg for me some americans lag but you can bet that if 2 of those americans raced each other there would be no lag. Only way around that is to have separate championships for europe and the americas until broadband gets a hell of a lot better or just accept that lag incidents are our equivalent of mechanical issues.

As for last nights 16 player lobbies, I thought they went well, only had one incident with BloodyCain due to a minor lag bomb. For me theres no difference if you have 12 or 16 players, the trickiest part is getting the racers in the room.
Hainesy
Hainesy

TORA Race Number : 446
PC Xbox One

Number of posts : 1618
Location : Orpington, Kent
Registration date : 2012-02-22
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Post by Ax4x Chaddy Mon 22 Oct 2012 - 16:05

CQR HABURi wrote:To be honest, if there was a crash involving 5-6 cars in real life, they would throw the red flag and stop the race.

I would Agree with this if most of the lobby wanted a re start. In the situation Lobby A had I would have done a 9 lap race with the rolling start order of the last full lap.
Ax4x Chaddy
Ax4x Chaddy

TORA Race Number : 00
PC Xbox One

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Post by Guest Mon 22 Oct 2012 - 16:26

That's an interesting idea Chaddy, never though of that before - not something you can do in real-world racing because of damaged cars, but could be worth thinking about for the future for virtual racing? Was really looking forward to having a battle with you again after our battle in race 1 and then BANG!!!

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TORA MSA GT Meeting 8 - Road Atlanta (21st Oct) - Page 6 Empty Re: TORA MSA GT Meeting 8 - Road Atlanta (21st Oct)

Post by CQR Rogue Mon 22 Oct 2012 - 16:34

BG Hainesy wrote:
SelectiveRogue wrote:drivers that consistent lag and don't improve their connection which jeopardizes other drivers may not be allowed to race if connection improvements cant be made.

Will be extremely difficult to implement this as different people lag for each person. eg for me some americans lag but you can bet that if 2 of those americans raced each other there would be no lag. Only way around that is to have separate championships for europe and the americas until broadband gets a hell of a lot better or just accept that lag incidents are our equivalent of mechanical issues.

As for last nights 16 player lobbies, I thought they went well, only had one incident with BloodyCain due to a minor lag bomb. For me theres no difference if you have 12 or 16 players, the trickiest part is getting the racers in the room.

if its an upload issue you can get an idea of some 1 by doing a speed test etc

CQR Rogue
CQR Rogue

TORA Race Number : 47
Xbox One PC

Number of posts : 15745
Location : Solihull
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Post by Guest Mon 22 Oct 2012 - 16:46

Indeed, a mandatory speed test from www.speedtest.net as part of the sign-up process is a very good way of spotting potential lag issues (other series I've raced elsewhere use this system, and amazingly I've seen upload speeds as low as 0.18Mb No)

e.g:

TORA MSA GT Meeting 8 - Road Atlanta (21st Oct) - Page 6 273900476

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Post by Hainesy Mon 22 Oct 2012 - 17:13

This would help if peoples connections were a constant but theres nothing to say that if you post up a test showing say 10m d/l and 1m u/l that your connection wont fluctuate. ADSL connections fluctuate all over the place, wireless is another cause of fluctuations. Something as simple as a microwave can cause a wireless connection to go ballistic so for me these tests are only valid at the time of the test.
Hainesy
Hainesy

TORA Race Number : 446
PC Xbox One

Number of posts : 1618
Location : Orpington, Kent
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Post by Graftersroom Mon 22 Oct 2012 - 17:19

Racert46 wrote:
I had rather been in C lobby with 12 drivers and have a proper race then this lag issue in B lobby with 16 drivers.

Actually mate, there was 16 in lobby C and some epic lag in race 2. I'm putting the replay on store front tonight...watch out for the (Bora/Porsche/Space hopper which started just behind me.

I have to say thanks to the guys for letting me host. Nerve-racking and I think that affected my performance...that and 100% aero / 70% transmission / 90% Engine / 70% Brake damage...and everything else was about 50% coming out of turn one...lap one...yeah...I'm a bit sour.

Graftersroom
Graftersroom

TORA Race Number : 411
Number of posts : 87
Location : Birmingham, United Kingdom
Registration date : 2012-04-24
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Post by Graftersroom Mon 22 Oct 2012 - 17:37

Oh, I'd like to thank the top 4 lads in Lobby C Race 1 for the clean racing though. Some good stuff and some good moves, was a good battle to be in the middle of.
Graftersroom
Graftersroom

TORA Race Number : 411
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Post by Guest Mon 22 Oct 2012 - 17:38

BG Hainesy wrote:This would help if peoples connections were a constant but theres nothing to say that if you post up a test showing say 10m d/l and 1m u/l that your connection wont fluctuate. ADSL connections fluctuate all over the place, wireless is another cause of fluctuations. Something as simple as a microwave can cause a wireless connection to go ballistic so for me these tests are only valid at the time of the test.

ADSL upload speeds shouldn't vary by any great degree, they're typically fixed at specific profiles (384kbps, 512kbps or 768kbps), downloads do vary more but they're not really the issue that causes these lag problems.

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Post by Racert46 Mon 22 Oct 2012 - 17:42

@ Graftersroom,

What i mean is that i rather race with 12 drivers and less lag than full lobby with lag.

With yesterdays quali result normally I would have been in C lobby (29th or something)but because of the 16 people lobby i was just in the B lobby.

And it seems that in every lobby there was massive lag. Maybe because there where 16 players in the lobby.
Racert46
Racert46

TORA Race Number : 46
PC Xbox 360

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Post by Graftersroom Mon 22 Oct 2012 - 18:07

End of the day, it's a game working through a server with everyone using their individual connection. Sometimes can't be helped. Like Magic said, least we're all not dead & we can all hope that Turn 10 will give TORA a free server for Forza 5.
Graftersroom
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TORA Race Number : 411
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Post by CQR Rogue Mon 22 Oct 2012 - 18:10

Graftersroom wrote:End of the day, it's a game working through a server with everyone using their individual connection. Sometimes can't be helped. Like Magic said, least we're all not dead & we can all hope that Turn 10 will give TORA a free server for Forza 5.

exactly Smile
CQR Rogue
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TORA Race Number : 47
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Post by Racert46 Mon 22 Oct 2012 - 19:43

Here is my test. Taken at 6 pm GMT when everybody is going online in Holland.....

TORA MSA GT Meeting 8 - Road Atlanta (21st Oct) - Page 6 2258255394

And for your viewing pleasure the lag incident.

Racert46
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Post by CQR Honcho Mon 22 Oct 2012 - 20:01

can i just say, its all well and fine posting speed tests to your closest server, but for a more accurate reading, put it to the LOBBY HOSTS nearest server, and you will see some very different results Smile

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Post by HCR ChicaiN Mon 22 Oct 2012 - 20:40

Aside from the two lag spikes that both gave me slight damage I had two great races. I think Hainesy and I were within 200ft the entire two races. Had a great time moving up thru the field with these guys. Great driving in lobby B!

Really wish the races were longer. My replay was only 21 mintues long. Why are we not maximizing the length of races based on replay times? These races are too short. The second race if anytrhing should be longer than the first to give the reverse grid drivers the chance to catch the leaders. I've now seen two straight weeks where a driver finishes last in the first race and cruises to a win in the second. Something not right there.

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TORA Race Number : 359
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