TORA MSA GT Meeting 8 - Road Atlanta (21st Oct)

Perhaps a group plea to Turn 10 for a dedicated server for a dedicated group of people.. as a way of them saying thank you to the Forza faithful. Or it would just be a nice gift for X-mas

I run on wired 100mb/s but even then it can misbehave at times.. i guess it can depend on how many other people in the same location/ street are useing exchange at the same time too. Cant wait for the fibre optics to turn up here

CQR MAGiC wrote:That's an interesting idea Chaddy, never though of that before - not something you can do in real-world racing because of damaged cars, but could be worth thinking about for the future for virtual racing? Was really looking forward to having a battle with you again after our battle in race 1 and then BANG!!!

Id like to see it happen - Over to the staff!

Yeah the battle in Race 1 was good in the end saw a huge space back to 10th so thought id slip into that and let you by. No point fighting a car thats faster than you (got away with it last round just!).

Race 2 I honestly thought I could win. Once I passed Beanz at the start I quickly got onto Foot and was all over him, even trying to past round the outside! Spend about 3 laps trying to pass him, then Dan got a run on me and I just let him go really as I thought he could pass Foot and there for let me pass him too. Then start of lap 5 the Lag crash happened, there was nothing I could do, I braked hard but that wouldnt have done anything anyway. Hope theres no more issues as the championship is drawing to an end and Magic lost out on points towards it big time.

Graftersroom wrote:

Racert46 wrote:
I had rather been in C lobby with 12 drivers and have a proper race then this lag issue in B lobby with 16 drivers.

Actually mate, there was 16 in lobby C and some epic lag in race 2. I'm putting the replay on store front tonight...watch out for the (Bora/Porsche/Space hopper which started just behind me.

I have to say thanks to the guys for letting me host. Nerve-racking and I think that affected my performance...that and 100% aero / 70% transmission / 90% Engine / 70% Brake damage...and everything else was about 50% coming out of turn one...lap one...yeah...I'm a bit sour.

Yea mate I was in the Porsche but.. I started in front of you! I came in 5th in the first race so I started a few positions ahead of you, and in my screen a few others were lagging and I knew it wasn't just me seeing it because other drivers were complaining of the same people lagging. The incident on turn 1 was that of me going on the inside and CRA Morphader turning completely in on me and causing me to spin out and then you and a few other cars collected me.. The lag you saw may have been my connection acting up with yours because im in the US? but i usually have perfect connection with other drivers no matter what country they are in. The point is I want you to check the accident from my point of view because I started dead even with Morphader and had the inside line and he just turned in on me.. Don't know if it was lag or just a badly calculated move. All I know is it ruined both of our races

LMR Scuderia wrote:
The incident on turn 1 was that of me going on the inside and CRA Morphader turning completely in on me and causing me to spin out and then you and a few other cars collected me.. The lag you saw may have been my connection acting up with yours because im in the US? but i usually have perfect connection with other drivers no matter what country they are in. The point is I want you to check the accident from my point of view because I started dead even with Morphader and had the inside line and he just turned in on me.. Don't know if it was lag or just a badly calculated move. All I know is it ruined both of our races

Mate, I saw no lag issue from you, it was the guy who ended up 1st in Race 1 who had the Space Hopper Porsche. I've watched your incident and you get your nose chopped off into the first corner. There was nothing you could do. Morph probably could've given you a bit more room, but he took the racing line.

I actually don't blame anyone for what happened, certainly not you mate. You were sideways when we the hit happened, I can hardly blame you for not getting out of the way. Getting lapped by the entire field was a bit downgrading though.

SelectiveRogue wrote:dedicated servers for forza 5

P-L-eeeeeeaaassssseeeee.

BloodYCaiN wrote:Really wish the races were longer. My replay was only 21 mintues long. Why are we not maximizing the length of races based on replay times? These races are too short. The second race if anytrhing should be longer than the first to give the reverse grid drivers the chance to catch the leaders. I've now seen two straight weeks where a driver finishes last in the first race and cruises to a win in the second. Something not right there.

This is a really good point which should not be buried. There is an apparent flaw in the rules when people are able to manipulate their points scoring potential by finishing the first race in last place (intentionally) thus maximising their scoring potential in the second race by starting at the front. The surprising thing is that this can be alleviated by increasing the length of the second race...

Before anybody jumps on the 'It's to give everyone a fair chance of winning' argument, I point you in the direction of the mid-lobby runners who slog it out for menial points whilst any individual who employs the above tactic would walk away better off by finishing last and first...


8th & 9th = 311 points

1st & 16th = 330 points

I regularly find myself finishing in the midfield of A-lobby and so this is becoming of great interest to me. I'd be really intrigued to hear what the staff think of this, all the while remembering that this is not a criticism, merely an inquiry.

Bottom line, there isn't a sufficient amount of time for the reverse grid runners to catch the front of the field and this is most certainly not possible if the leader of the second race sandbagged to get there. I've shown multiple examples of this through out the series. I've also looked through the finishing stats week after week and the most you will see someone move up in race 2 on average is 6-8 with an occasional 9-10 spots and in my opinion that is above and beyond what should be considered normal. I think the fix for this is a hybrid system between reverse grid and regular grid. Site admins may want to consider having a 50% room position swing instead of an all out grid swap for the second race. Finish 1st in race one with a 12 driver field and start 6th in race 2. Finish 2nd and start 7th. Finish 3rd and start 8th. Finish 12th in race 1 and start 5th in race 2 and so on. That way...even if the last place driver sandbags to get the first spot, the faster drivers from race one will have enough time and opportunity to catch the first driver with the previously mentioned and implemented grid system and a slightly longer race. It's really frustrating knowing you have the speed to ultimately catch the leader of race 2 but don't have the time to do it. Can we atleast maximize race lengths to help with this problem?

@ Bloodycain: Won't people just aim to be 6th in Race 1 to get pole in Race 2.

Just being devils advocate here, but if players are that much faster than the other guys in the lobby, shouldn't they have qualified better in the first place, therefore be in a higher lobby where the racing is tighter and more equal.

I appreciate that sometime people mess up on Quali, but if every race they can go from 16th to 6th then you could argue they're too good for the lobby and should've quali'd better. I don't think anyone can moan because they can't get past everyone in the lobby, if they're that much faster they probably shouldn't have been there in the first place.

@ CQR Cobblepop:
I'm actually ragged off about the points thing as I tend to end up mid pack sort of 3rd to 7th-ish, but I prefer the racing in the middle...it's obviously an annoyance that people can use that tactic to exploit the system.

Yes...the second race grid order was put to a poll but that doesn't mean after implementing it for a while that there won't be obvious changes to improve it. Open minds prevail. I think the previous mentioned comments supports that perfectly. Ofcourse both races should be the same length and why wouldn't they be. But, if they weren't...the second race would be longer because that's the race that ultimately determines the race winner. Race lengths for this series are determined by replay times so minimally they could be lengthened to better optimize the allotted replay time. Not to mention we also waste over 3 minutes on a pointless parade lap ultimately leading to a sketchy rolling start instead of a standing start and an additional 2 more laps to race but that's a whole other can of worms for me and I'll leave that can closed.

As Cobblepot said, these are just helpful observations to potentially better the series and site.

Graftersroom wrote:@ Bloodycain: Won't people just aim to be 6th in Race 1 to get pole in Race 2.

Just being devils advocate here, but if players are that much faster than the other guys in the lobby, shouldn't they have qualified better in the first place, therefore be in a higher lobby where the racing is tighter and more equal.

I appreciate that sometime people mess up on Quali, but if every race they can go from 16th to 6th then you could argue they're too good for the lobby and should've quali'd better. I don't think anyone can moan because they can't get past everyone in the lobby, if they're that much faster they probably shouldn't have been there in the first place.

Funny you mention that as I disagree with super-poll and see it as the reason people are able to sandbag. You give all the drivers literally one lap to post a clean lap time to position yourself in the field. If the fastest driver dirties his one lap then he will qualify last setting himself up for an overall victory. Personally I think super-poll should be abolished and the grid order should go off our actual qualifying time that placed us in the rooms. That completely dissolves anyone from trying to cheat the system. I've personally gone from 13th to 3rd in the second race...that's suppose to happen. The faster drivers from the first race are suppose to be able to move through the field. It doesn't mean their too fast for the room. What it DOES mean is that they don't have a chance to win the race that they rightfull should have a chance to win.

say if theirs 14 cars in a lobby, why not just do a top 10 reverse? It creates a fight and competition from 9th to 14th then to secure that 10th places to get the reverse, this way, no one can really sandbag, because 1 foot wrong could see you down in 11th and staying 11th.

does this make sense? Its how im used to doing it for best part of a year now!

I do like the Super Pole in race 1, im not saying this because ive made a few positions, but it really does mix up the grid if everyone plays ball!

look at CQR Magic, sorry to say this, but he ballsed up his super pole lap and Qualified 13th! Now some drivers would go, meh, screw it, ill drop to 16th in the race to bag an easy pole and take an easy win! Buut he didnt! He fought his way ( cleanly may i add ) from 13th all the way up to 5th! thus meaning in race 2, he had to do all of that again!

The day I can cut through the field like he does, is the day i know Im at the top of my game!

CQR Rusty wrote:say if theirs 14 cars in a lobby, why not just do a top 10 reverse? It creates a fight and competition from 9th to 14th then to secure that 10th places to get the reverse, this way, no one can really sandbag, because 1 foot wrong could see you down in 11th and staying 11th.

does this make sense? Its how im used to doing it for best part of a year now!

That does also make sense. I was trying to figure out a good position stopping number to use that method.

I think super-pole should be for A lobby only. THose guys are freaks and can battle it out rather well. you take someone whos in the bowels of the lobbies like D or E and it would be demoralizing if they screwed up their lap and had to start at the back where they should have started from the front.

just say top 10 or 80% ?

Keep it simples!

mopar4t4 wrote:I think super-pole should be for A lobby only. THose guys are freaks and can battle it out rather well. you take someone whos in the bowels of the lobbies like D or E and it would be demoralizing if they screwed up their lap and had to start at the back where they should have started from the front.

But thats the same feeling we get in lobby 1 to be honset.
Plenty of us have cars now thats are a bit below average, but we all still plug away, and when you hook your lap up in super pole and the guys with the "better" cars dont, its such a great feeling!

I went from 11th to 7th in the Vette just from Superpole and i was grinning as if i had just taken Pole!

mopar4t4 wrote:I think super-pole should be for A lobby only. THose guys are freaks and can battle it out rather well.

I don't understand this comment at all. Too much is based on a damn hot-lap qualifying time here. People aren't Forza gods because they can hot lap well. They also have to be able to race just as well and that means passing and following cleanly. B lobby along with others can have just as good of drivers as A. Just because you qualify for A lobby doesn't mean you're automatically a fricken robot driver. Seems to me most of the Steward announcements and bickering between drivers happens for the most part in lobby A. So for now...lets just assume all drivers are created equally shall we.

Nothing personal Mopar...you just happen to be the person that sparked that response. I still luv u.

I think my point was in Quali 1, where you have 5 laps, how does anyone not end up in the room with their apparent equals?

If you can make up 10 places in a, say 12 lap, race, then surely you are too good for the room?

I suppose what i'm getting at is that I really never expected that anyone in the same lobby as me to be 2 seconds a lap quicker, but that does happen on occasion. I mean, i've seen you in my mirrors enough, that's proof in itself. Ha!

Graftersroom wrote:I think my point was in Quali 1, where you have 5 laps, how does anyone not end up in the room with their apparent equals?

If you can make up 10 places in a, say 12 lap, race, then surely you are too good for the room?

I suppose what i'm getting at is that I really never expected that anyone in the same lobby as me to be 2 seconds a lap quicker, but that does happen on occasion. I mean, i've seen you in my mirrors enough, that's proof in itself. Ha!

Sadly for me...I generally qualify slower than I actually drive in the races. For the first race I totally agree. If someone superpoles 13 and moves up 12 places in the race then thats a sure sign that dudes a major sandbagger. But...moving 6-10 places in the second race is totally viable.

Pressure

Right messages passed onto Simon to look into, Staff will respond we do like constructive criticism so please feel free to construct and advise so we can drive CI in our race series.

CQR Rusty wrote:Pressure

I handle pressure pretty well...I think it's the sitting and waiting prior to the qualifying that hurts me.

Graftersroom wrote:I think my point was in Quali 1, where you have 5 laps, how does anyone not end up in the room with their apparent equals?

If you can make up 10 places in a, say 12 lap, race, then surely you are too good for the room?

I suppose what i'm getting at is that I really never expected that anyone in the same lobby as me to be 2 seconds a lap quicker, but that does happen on occasion. I mean, i've seen you in my mirrors enough, that's proof in itself. Ha!

I don't think I've ever been two seconds a lap faster than you. Maybe you weren't referring to me.