TORA 12 Hours of Sebring - General Discussion

Midgetexpress wrote:

Nick James123 wrote:

is VERY hard to make all the cars within 1second of one another around TWO completely different tracks……

Well we manage to get 4 classes of cars to within half a second in the FLMS on the vast majority of tracks we run in the series, not just one or two, so one second really isn't a tight enough margin in my opinion. The Corvette is blatantly the fastest, anyone who doesn't think otherwise is sorely mistaken, it is also very easy to drive fast. ....

I do agree with the homaligation/performance balancing issues outlined here and elsewhere in the forum (and in racing in general). Namely, unless you keep the rules super constrictive, absolute parity is difficult or impossible to attain. The way I see it (though I very well could be completely incorrect), in TORA seasons and series past, a handicapping system like that of FLM (with higher power and grip handicaps), presented a problem in that the perceived advantage of unhandicapped cars made people want to run the cars without any sort of restriction. There are a variety of reasons for this, but in these big races, tuning plays a huge roll in pace. It is easier to tune without a handycap for obvious reasons, and like I said the perception (actual or otherwise) that handicapped cars were artificially slow came up constantly. FLM is a smaller group of almost all super quick and serious drivers and tuners (with the obvious exception of myself of course). These folks will determine the outright pace of a car quicker than the average player. In FLM this is maybe a handful of racers, at tora its a couple dozen.
Now for the real issues, Will there be performance balancing from race to race? I tend to think having safe, fairly fast, and dependable drivers will be far more important than having the absolute quickest car over the course of a one lap. That said, it is important to ensure fairness for all (which is easier said than done). Either way, it is a thankless and laborious task putting this stuff on, so I commend TORA and FLM (and VM, and the like) for putting the time and effort in to this stuff so that we, the users , can enjoy a fulfilling and fun racing experience.

question bout raceday......is that a saturday or a sunday

a WORM a wrote:

General, this is going to be the worst spring ever. We are already getting tornado's in Jan/Feb.

i am very worried about this spring... i think we might see another round like a couple years ago...

RW26 BLAZE wrote:question bout raceday......is that a saturday or a sunday

Starts 2pm GMT Saturday and ends 2am GMT Sunday.

RW26 BLAZE wrote:question bout raceday......is that a saturday or a sunday

It starts 2pm GTM Saturday and finishes Sunday 2am GMT !!

Ooppps...didnt come up with it saying someone had already answered, must had pressed send at the same time

car caps go against getting everyone online racing...balance cars as best as possible and people / teams will choose different cars. People like to be different. Yes some people are sheep, but others are not.

I see a rush for the same car as a reflection something is not balanced as well as previously thought, or it simply wouldn't happen like that. History would show everyone wanted the corvette in previous years otherwise, and that simply hasn't been the case.

Unfortunately, wheel vs Pad in testing / developing a series now needs to be taken into account balancing cars. All cars need to be tested with a pad and a wheel. Then the leveling of Pad to Wheel we know can't be done, but an understanding of any complaints that wheel vs pad throws up can be answered quickly with an explanation.

In the TEC specifically, the tracks and the time frames involved require leveling to be done for each round, FM4 leveling just won't cater to long tracks and large time frames with such different characteristics and tuning possibilities. 2 seconds a lap over a 20 lap race in a touring car is manageable. 2 seconds a lap over 319 lap race (this is what we managed last year with a less than good overall race!) equals 6 laps difference before the race even begins!!

Just my 2 pennies ;O)

So all this fuss is for Le Mans in the summer?

Can I suggest that people leave it for now because the cars are clearly reasonably balanced for Sebring.

Once Sebring is over, the Admin team could open up a site-wide test thread so anyone and everyone can report back their own testing results to help the orgainisers balance the cars for Le Mans. If you don't include your testing results then you can't complain.

With Le Mans being twice as long as Sebring (based of GTE laptime) then if 1 second a lap is the target on Sebring, 2 seconds a lap would be a good target on Le Mans. Tighter timing would be better but with the lack of adjustability in PI and Handicaps, 2 seconds may be as good as it gets.


While it is understandable if people picked cars based on combined times at both tracks, if it needs to be adressed, then so be it. Then, if everyone can see in the site-wide test thread that the cars are reasonably close then expect a rush for the ones that have been shown fastest in that thread and suggest to anyone who still thinks they are too unbalanced to sit the race out.

There will always be a 'fastest car' and there will always be a rush for the 'fastest car'. If you're racing for 12/24 hours then you're racing to do as well as you can.

Yo peeps. Just a couple of highlights to share to impress upon you the importance of taking the racing line at all times in a slower car, it is actually safer and easier for faster cars to negotiate you when you do this, even ends up being faster even though it may not feel like it, but if we know where you'll be and when, we can wait where needed and safely pass where it should be safe. If you start trying to let people through it can cause more delay and accidents!

GOOD = https://youtu.be/3TaGoz68M_I?t=34m55s

It may seem like the slower car is in the way, but actually taking the racing line meant I could wait and not dive into a tempting gap.

CQR Magictap wrote:Yo peeps. Just a couple of highlights to share to impress upon you the importance of taking the racing line at all times in a slower car, it is actually safer and easier for faster cars to negotiate you when you do this, even ends up being faster even though it may not feel like it, but if we know where you'll be and when, we can wait where needed and safely pass where it should be safe. If you start trying to let people through it can cause more delay and accidents!

GOOD = https://youtu.be/3TaGoz68M_I?t=34m55s

It may seem like the slower car is in the way, but actually taking the racing line meant I could wait and not dive into a tempting gap.

Your lines are beautiful.

thank you sir - i try to follow the track limits as defined by TORA ;O)

I remember that stint magic. I had a lot of fun that race.

keeping conversations to a minimum is nice as well, i think you'll find that the really good prototype drivers dont need to call out their spots

thus keeping the room silent and concentration much easier.

^ i personally agree with this. If the slower car is taking and focusing on the racing line there should be no need in most cases for any communication between the drivers as the faster class makes its way past.

Yeah I had that issue at the Nurb... I'd be waiting to get past a slower car, then they notice me approaching then move off the line, practically into my path, and say "GO LEFT GO LEFT" and I just think "No, I should crash into you just in spite."

Good lines there Magictap

At britcar i had no problem letting quicker cars past me as if they where close enough i would announce that they go down the inside and i would let them through with ease. If there is enough communication between people there shouldn't be a problem passing (obviously nurb was a little different as the track is so tight) also there is a problem with quicker cars wanting to get past in a rather arrogant manner chopping noses off and diving for insides of corners without announcing etc. people should just be a little more patient and aware and everything will be fine.

cheers dk

does anyone know when the numberboards are coming out

I have a copy... Is that why you inv'd me to a par-tay earlier?

Midgetexpress wrote:

Nick James123 wrote:

is VERY hard to make all the cars within 1second of one another around TWO completely different tracks……

Well we manage to get 4 classes of cars to within half a second in the FLMS on the vast majority of tracks we run in the series, not just one or two, so one second really isn't a tight enough margin in my opinion. The Corvette is blatantly the fastest, anyone who doesn't think otherwise is sorely mistaken, it is also very easy to drive fast.
Series diversity comes from well-balanced cars, I will again use the FLMS as an example. We have Ferrari, Porsche, BMW, Corvette and SRT all well-represented. People have chosen the car they like the most, because they aren't at a disadvantage choosing it. We have caps, but that is because we only allow a limited number of teams (only real teams). We haven't had to place individual car caps because of people flocking to any one car in GT. Nobody who I have talked to chose their TEC car based on passion for their particular car. They all chose based on performance, namely the massively rapid 'Vette. I love the Porsche but I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole here, it is utterly broken.
I do appreciate that testing is a long, frustrating process and is a very thankless task by the way.

Viper represent!

XPR Roadrunner wrote:

Midgetexpress wrote:

Nick James123 wrote:

is VERY hard to make all the cars within 1second of one another around TWO completely different tracks……

Well we manage to get 4 classes of cars to within half a second in the FLMS on the vast majority of tracks we run in the series, not just one or two, so one second really isn't a tight enough margin in my opinion. The Corvette is blatantly the fastest, anyone who doesn't think otherwise is sorely mistaken, it is also very easy to drive fast.
Series diversity comes from well-balanced cars, I will again use the FLMS as an example. We have Ferrari, Porsche, BMW, Corvette and SRT all well-represented. People have chosen the car they like the most, because they aren't at a disadvantage choosing it. We have caps, but that is because we only allow a limited number of teams (only real teams). We haven't had to place individual car caps because of people flocking to any one car in GT. Nobody who I have talked to chose their TEC car based on passion for their particular car. They all chose based on performance, namely the massively rapid 'Vette. I love the Porsche but I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole here, it is utterly broken.
I do appreciate that testing is a long, frustrating process and is a very thankless task by the way.

Viper represent!

indeed!

Would have chosen the Panoz, it feels really nice.

Markius Fox wrote:Would have chosen the Panoz, it feels really nice.

Maybe, but have you LOOKED at the thing? It should be banned for being too ugly, it will put everyone else in the lobby off