TORA US American Iron Discussion

Remedy ..ban superchargers

Spec Racer Z wrote:
As for the extra HP, I definitely noticed that on 3 or 4 cars, and checked in telemetry on the drag strip and adjusted for 400 hp in telemetry for my builds. .

you had prior knowledge of this way around the rules!!?!?!?!
.... that changes things

So by banning superchargers mid season doesn't change the fact that after 3 races people have used them and gained an advantage as a result. Personally I would leave everything as it is but if rules were to be changed then restart the series. Seems unfair that people get an advantage as a result.

...your kidding right?

dude you have made half a race...your car is one effected...
many series adjust for parity
why am i even worried about what you think lol.... stupid me

First off I would like to thank everyone for being so patient with me on Friday, I have been having issue for days with my internet here. I think they must have been replacing some lines or something here as I have had major Live connections for about a week. If you could have seen qualifying from my perspective you would not have wanted me in the race room. My lag was so bad that I could not even hear people speaking, I could see the gamer-tag flash someone was talking but no sound, also don't think you could hear me.

Things seem to have evened themselves out now so I'll try again next week, lag has never really been an issue with me so it was a strange occurrence for sure.

ROSCOEpCOTRAIN wrote:

Spec Racer Z wrote:
As for the extra HP, I definitely noticed that on 3 or 4 cars, and checked in telemetry on the drag strip and adjusted for 400 hp in telemetry for my builds. .

you had prior knowledge of this way around the rules!!?!?!?!
.... that changes things

No, I discovered a confusing conflict in Forza's PI system that had so little effect as to be worthless. In all of the cases where I saw this weird issue, the car was at top of the PI limit and had to sacrifice some weight to be able to run this power, not to mention the worse weight balance already brought up. I ran my Laguna Seca tune on Sedona mile drag, then increased the weight and added the 4 hp, which I left off in the build since the start of this series because I value low weight more and wanted to avoid going over the limits in telemetry when the car is built to spec within the game's rough edged system. The 396 hp build got a 1:31.865. The 400 hp build got a 1:31.832. That's such a small advantage that it could be easily attributed to launch and shifting techniques, and that's on the full mile.

And again with minimum aero, 31.448 with the 396 hp build and 31.398 with the 400 hp build. And for this fantastic advantage of .050 of a second over a full mile with 31 seconds of throttle and top speed less restricted by aero, you gain 22 pounds of weight and lose .001 of lateral G's, meaning slightly worse braking and cornering. Even if I had gone only by the menu specs with the belief that a large in house Microsoft game studio could properly program a damned game, I'd still have gone with a bit less power for better braking and handling because of the track selection.

PS, my replay is up with the description "TORA AI Round 3".

Thats a VERY LONG WINDED admission of prior knowledge you could surpass400hp without notifying anyone...just because you tried not to does not mean another won't

ROSCOEpCOTRAIN wrote:Thats a VERY LONG WINDED  admission of prior knowledge you could surpass400hp without notifying anyone...just because you tried not to does not mean another won't

Yes, just glance over all of the objective testing showing how little it actually affects anything. That works better for your crusade.

Well sport if it is not an advantage then you would stand with the rules...no?

....name a real series that you can unilaterally decide to go over on HP and get busted in tech with no repercussions?...not one!!! TORA AS REAL AS IT GETS?

ROSCOEpCOTRAIN wrote:Well sport if it is not an advantage then you would stand with the rules...no?

If the rules were altered to ban the use of superchargers since Turn 10 has no in-lobby system to restrict their power with regard to telemetry, yes, I would simply change my aspiration and be mildly annoyed at having to readjust the balance of my suspension tune because of the weight distribution change.

Having to completely avoid a realistic method of aspiration useable in the real life American Iron series just because of a small discrepancy in Turn 10's coding with little effect on actual performance is still pointlessly pedantic either way. In a real life series, if there is a hp limitation, the car would be allowed to compete if it dyno'd within specs with no alterations before the race. Something like the hp suddenly surging an extra horsepower or two when a car lifts off the drive wheels over a crest would not suddenly result in a ban on their engine, if you could even measure the power with that kind of accuracy on a live race track.

Also forgot, try rewinding slowly while watching the HP vs watching the HP in slow motion forwards. It won't give the same result both ways, so keep that in mind when checking anything in Forza's rough replays.

If it weren't for the fact that a NA rule would have banned the only two Mopar products eligible, I'd have run the series as Naturally Aspirated only.

BTW, the rules clearly state Max HP of 399HP, except that Cadillac CTS-V and Pontiac GTO come 400HP stock... so, I have gone with the "as long as it fits the lobby" rule adaptation.

Rules stand as they are, there will be no build changes for the series this season. If there is a season two, there will be a few adjustments, including HP increase (maybe with power restriction) and mandatory natural aspiration.

Yeah thats the way they said Tora would handle things....smfh
Spec you are full of ish.... if your car makes398 but with boost403 then your should build it to395
Again violation's have been brought to light and Tora sticks it's head in the sand and ass in the air....

OK remedy num two
Going forward if a car is found to exceed400 HP at all very stiff penaltys should be handed down

It will come through the Stewards if a Penalty is to be decided on, this is a Pitlane event, Mikey can not give his own Penalties out, so therefore, ur case of Penalties been issued out for the 2nd "Rememdy" will have 2 be passed onto the FM4 Stewards. or Head of Stewarding what is FranchitiFan

question to mikey or the hosts

are the game setting set so the max BHP is 400???

Yes, they are. In week one, my build (which came right from Mikey for testing back in Feb) was right at 400HP and I could not get into the lobby. He raised the limit in the lobby setting for that week since the original spec was 400, and sent me a new build after that at 396HP.

As a former steward at VM I would view the situation as such. No one has broken the rules here. The HP spec is a standing spec, not under race conditions, and the use of superchargers is allowed in this series. I have never seen any series where the HP spec was based on the telemetry while racing. I have never even thought to check that. If the rules say 400 HP, then that's what I build it to, while it's sitting in my garage.

I maintain my earlier comment that 5HP is negligible. I have tested cars in the past with as much as 10HP difference and ran the same lap times. The numbers Spec posted would seem to reaffirm that.

To change the rules now, or to hand out penalties, would be far more detrimental than running it as stands. I could have 450HP and Spec and Solar would still pass me, because they are just faster than me. Yellowchief finished some distance behind me last week, and normally he's right at my door handing me a coffee, so obviously that extra boost gave him no advantage.

Let's just bank this info, which is good to know, for future series and move forward.

EZT MAKO 6669 wrote:Yes, they are. In week one, my build (which came right from Mikey for testing back in Feb) was right at 400HP and I could not get into the lobby. He raised the limit in the lobby setting for that week since the original spec was 400, and sent me a new build after that at 396HP.

As a former steward at VM I would view the situation as such. No one has broken the rules here. The HP spec is a standing spec, not under race conditions, and the use of superchargers is allowed in this series. I have never seen any series where the HP spec was based on the telemetry while racing. I have never even thought to check that. If the rules say 400 HP, then that's what I build it to, while it's sitting in my garage.

I maintain my earlier comment that 5HP is negligible. I have tested cars in the past with as much as 10HP difference and ran the same lap times. The numbers Spec posted would seem to reaffirm that.

To change the rules now, or to hand out penalties, would be far more detrimental than running it as stands. I could have 450HP and Spec and Solar would still pass me, because they are just faster than me. Yellowchief finished some distance behind me last week, and normally he's right at my door handing me a coffee, so obviously that extra boost gave him no advantage.

Let's just bank this info, which is good to know, for future series and move forward.

+1 dude, i know my Car is 1 of the few thats hitting the 401 BHP, but thats only for a split second :/, this has been passed onto the Stewards and we are Reviewing it

Don't blow smoke bud ....nobody is going to do anything about it rather then have this swept aside through bickering with stewards via PM I felt as a small series we could handle this oversite in house ....again stupid me for thinking"no means no"
FYI precedent has been set !!! Rules are a guideline not law

If the lobby settings are made and the car fits inside of the restrictions and the car is eligible to be chosen what is the point of the argument? Turn10 made the cock up not any of the drivers or series organisers, so in all fairness there is no need for any arguments UNLESS the rules are actually being broken.

Lol Ohh you lol

Oh me, roscoe your bitching about something that doesn't affect you in the slightest, the telemetry in forza has never been 100% correct, the builds are not illegal in any form because if they were they wouldn't be able to pick the car even the dumbest people know that but I'm guessing your on another level of stupidity

Stupid is stupid does sally!!!
Do you race or just troll because I have raced in many series and never not once actually seen you on track/in a series/ or doing anything other then defend the indefensible....

I normally race in higher lobbies then you sunshine and how can it not be defended when it's not illegal you complete moron

So you race In your own lobby?
....wow you have no clue whats going on...sad
ill try this another way to get through to you...
Pinto power is a very fitting name....just like the car you explode when you get it in the rearend ...