MSA TORA Daytona 24H - General Discussion

Who did win the race? Confused as hell.

LRT Breeze wrote:Who did win the race? Confused as hell.

HCR Scuderia took the victory

and XboxMotorsports.de Pro took the GT victory

TSR Noodle wrote:Unfortunate for TLR and GripTek, but the rules are the rules. They can only come back stronger at Sebring. Good luck to all.

...and you're coming on the Media Team to shoot more awesome pictures aren't you...(yes Matt, of course Matt :p )

The biggest problem WAS NOT the TORA staff.... It was us the participants and we should accept responsibility for not being online and ready to go in sufficient enough time before the current stint was to end (yes I am guilty of this as well and will do my part to help remedy this issue at Sebring) AND to all players guilty of this you know how you are.... These events are not held for you to collect XP and credits. At the end of one of my stints there was multiple players slated to double stint and not all but some of those players refused to join the next lobby until the timer expired so they could collect the XP and credits. I'm recommending a stiff penalty any future events for this. This event was one of the best Forza experiences I've ever had and due to technical issues we didn't even finish.

First off, thank you to the staff, hosts, streamers, painters, tuners, and racers. Regardless of the drama, this was a hugely enjoyable event. Hell, even at its worst, it was better than anything I've seen in matchmaking.

If I may, I'd like to make some suggestions for future events:

48 Hours Out - Two people have been designated for each stint/lobby, a host and a timekeeper. Neither can be a participant in the previous lobby.

24 Hours Out - Each host sends a message to the members of their lobby. (Ex. I will be your host for Lobby A, Stint 2. If you are not participating in that stint let me know, or your team risks missing that stint.) This allows the host to have a message thread started for each racers, making last minute communication easier.

30 Minutes Before Stint - Lobby host and timekeeper start a private party. Host creates lobby while timekeeper checks for any adjustments to race/lineup.

25 Minutes Before Stint - Lobby is set up. Timekeeper double-checks lobby settings while host sends out first wave of invites.

15 Minutes Before Stint - Host sends out second wave of invites to missing participants.

10 Minutes Before Stint - Timekeeper invites previous lobby host and timekeeper into party. Previous lobby finishing position noted for current grid order.

5 Minutes Before Stint - Host sends out final invites to missing racers. Timekeeper clarifies grid order to participants.

0 Minutes - Stint Begins.

If a 15 minute turnover is not realistic or reliable, perhaps we should look into shorter stints. Maybe 1:40 with a 20 minute downtime. Or even 2:30 with 30 minutes down.

The idea is good but having 4 people host& time keeper is hard as not everyone can be available when it comes to the stints.

Also it doesn't help when people on comment in the Race control thread, a message to the next host about a stint change can work as the host for the stint is displayed

I think we should also have as many stewards watching the streams as we can.

XPR generaltso wrote:I think we should also have as many stewards watching the streams as we can.

Live streams of any sporting event I know if is never handled as singular credible evidence as it is unfair to ALL of the competitors what gets seen and what doesn't.

XPR generaltso wrote:I think we should also have as many stewards watching the streams as we can.

Can i add that a steward was watching along with staff

Just incase you missed my post, the results are finalized in the live timing page

WRA Tower wrote:to all players guilty of this you know how you are.... These events are not held for you to collect XP and credits. At the end of one of my stints there was multiple players slated to double stint and not all but some of those players refused to join the next lobby until the timer expired so they could collect the XP and credits. I'm recommending a stiff penalty any future events for this.

Whoa? who was doing this? you can't be that skint on forza can you? I have too much money on there to actually spend lol.

Seriously though you can't be doing that and purposely delaying stints, no wonder we ended up behind on time.

AdamWatson99 wrote:The idea is good but having 4 people host& time keeper is hard as not everyone can be available when it comes to the stints.

I didn't mean outsiders, but rather participants of that very stint. If someone is willing to test, tune, and race, they better be willing to put in a little extra time before a stint to help things along. I also don't know where you got "4 people" from. I suggested two people that are already showing up to race, one host and one timekeeper.

TechnologicMau5 wrote:

Live streams of any sporting event I know if is never handled as singular credible evidence as it is unfair to ALL of the competitors what gets seen and what doesn't.

and if i had said that the live stream should be the only evidence used in stewarding decisions, your post would mean something.

Hunty1981 wrote:
Can i add that a steward was watching along with staff

fair enough.

XPR generaltso wrote:

TechnologicMau5 wrote:

Live streams of any sporting event I know if is never handled as singular credible evidence as it is unfair to ALL of the competitors what gets seen and what doesn't.

and if i had said that the live stream should be the only evidence used in stewarding decisions, your post would mean something.

to expand upon this since the edit function is still gone.

i've corner marshaled before at barber motorsports park and have marshaled HPDE's, motorcycle track days and club racing. there are CC cameras located all over the track. if one marshal sees something happen at turn whatever...we radio into race control to identify the car. then they keep an eye on what that car is doing using the CC cameras, then they'll haul the driver up to race control to have a talking to with him/her and then a decision is made based on video evidence AND talking to a driver.

ideally we'd have marshals watching the stream to see if anything is up.

something comes up...you'd make a note of it and then talk to the people involved and get a better idea of what is actually happened.

XPR generaltso wrote:

LMR Deftone MX wrote:

Very few of you here deserve the kind of race you're complaining about not having.

You know at first I was disappointed because we did not win, but after reflecting back on the past 24 hours and seeing so many people upset, i'm really happy with 3rd place and the race radiation engineering ran. We were 6 miles from the win and we were fighting among the leaders all damn race. We were competitive and able to take the fight to teams that honestly I thought would leave us behind.

great job boys. especially to louis and to cqr shifty for carrying the team on stints and getting us prepared with a paint and tunes.

We just showed up on time and did the damn thing.

Proud to put this race up there with one of better moments i've had on TORA.

nevermind. back down to fourth. pretty disappointed.

As my first event in TORA, I have to say thanks for an enjoyable experience. It was unique for it being the first time I've taken part in an event of this style. I do have some constructive criticism I hope doesn't come off as sounding harsh, I'll do my best.

I was a little disappointed with the number of times stints had to be restarted due to incorrect lobby settings, despite there being a settings thread for hosts to follow. No doubt if the game actually allowed the saving of lobby settings like Forza 4 this problem would have been alleviated, but perhaps hosts should double/triple check their settings before starting a stint so these delays don't happen in future. I'll also throw into this start procedure confusion. In one stint (sint 5 I think it was) we followed the rules of going to turn 3 before going racing, but in a later stint we were racing from the start.

Not a lot you guys can do about voice chat, that's a game/xbox related issue, but I found myself being rather cautious early in stints with GT traffic I wasn't able to communicate with. Some cars would leave space for me others would not. I came into the event prepared to find ways around traffic based on the rules stating GT's stay on the line and LMP's find their way around. For the GT cars I was able to communicate with or at least hear, I was aware that they were leaving the space. So if you left a space for me at all during lobby B stints and I didn't take it, it's probably because I couldn't hear you and hung back to avoid a collision not aware you were letting me go, sorry but I was just trying to follow the rules.

My lack of experience in this field probably doesn't see the exact reason why it was done the way it was, but I feel like the post-stint distance collecting stuff could have just been done with 1h45m session lengths and getting people to take a screenshot with the post-session results then sorting out the extra stuff in the 15 minute break between stints (for example, how far people who dropped out made it). But I'm sure there's a valid reason I'm thinking of why it was done the way it was so I'm not going too far into this point.

Lastly, I'm not sure if this is just me or a few other people are feeling the same, I don't really think there should be predicted mileage but instead a predetermined range. Say, for example, a stint length in an LMP is 400km (excuse my use of metric), then a predetermined range may be 300km and anyone who disconnects is automatically given 300km. They're not out of it, and they're not gifted distance that would just mean that they can do half a stint then drop out because they're still going to get good mileage on the predicted mileage to keep them in the race. Everyone gets the same value if they drop. This is coming from someone in a team that has benefited hugely from predicted mileage as well, taking us from 9th to 5th in LMP. I almost feel like we've been gifted 5th place. I thought maybe we'd be lucky and get 180 miles for stint 6 given he was only in there for 10 minutes, so you can imagine my surprise to see 212 in the box.

These are just some (hopefully not harsh sounding) constructive feedback thoughts for staff.

Criticism is always good if your polite about it

Glad you enjoyed it too.

Lobby settings would be nice to have the option for saving them, but it is easy to miss something. the details were there though so we'll just have to make sure everyone has these written down somewhere safe before they start hosting for next time if they haven't got their xbox and pc close by.

Voice chat, say no more, it's terrible, and we can't do anything about it, I wish that weren't the case but we're stuck with it lol.

Distance collection, it has to be done that way as it's the only way to calculate how many ft you've traveled, if we only use miles / km it wouldn't be accurate enough as you could potentially have 5 cars within a mile of each other and they'd all get the same distance. Because Forza doesn't give us total ft traveled it's the only way we know to get accurate distances by using ft from leader. As for the lagout data, that was really hard to obtain so definitely need a re-think before the next round. Pre-determined formula / lagout and get 0, not too sure what options are best but we'll think of something.

Hanging around for collect the XP and credits that is a little inconsiderate if you are double stinting. You have guy's waiting in the next lobby for you. The staff were excellent in my stints 1 was very tired little and grumpy still did his job

Distance collection was super easy in FM3. "Distance Travelled" was measured up to two decimal places, which at MOST had a difference of 52-53ft. In fact, we used this in the 2011 Le Mans Challenge. granted, back then only 5 cars were entered in total, and ran 3hr stints (ran to 2hr55 with the few cars in the race), after 3 stints, the top 2 GT cars were separated by 19 feet using just the distance given back then. oh, the simpler times. Why must you make things difficult Turn 10 Studios?!?!

As for waiting around for XP & credits, for those who doubled but still waited, Shame on you for delaying your own, and everyone else's race for a few worthless CR

would it be possible to have a list of who is hosting your lobby? (for future races?) but over all a good event. see you at Sebring

after what I saw penalty wise, I can honestly say I'm not ever racing here agian. I was giving this site a break to see if things got better, but it won't ever get better.

I hereby release my number (44) to the wind, whoever wants it can have it. Don't bother asking me in a PM, you can have it. I suppose just quote this msg in the tora race number thread.

adios

DizzyCupid519 wrote:would it be possible to have a list of who is hosting your lobby? (for  future races?) but over all a good event. see you at Sebring

A good idea, and can let you know that its already been brought up in staff chat about six hours ago. So, I can all but 100% guarantee you that this will happen from now on.

Let us hope the rest of the TEC is not like Daytona... because if it is then.... well... I don't think many team will be racing at the end of the year.