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TORA TEC Silverstone 12H: General Discussion

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Post by ESV Moshys Thu 27 Oct 2016 - 21:38

also if the PI was raised would it be possible for the 2014 McLaren to be used instead of the 2011?
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Post by MAB170294 Thu 27 Oct 2016 - 22:38

Yeah im for the idea of increased PI the Ford and Aston are pretty much the same pace so using them as benchmarks might be a plan
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Post by xebot360 Fri 28 Oct 2016 - 12:43

Even though I didn't race, here's my two cents on things.

The builds were good from when I tested them Razz

Looking at this "107%" thing, I think TORA need to consider how to get people to stay racing instead of dropping out mid way through the season for various reasons cause (correct me if I'm wrong) last time I raced in this was Le Mans and in a 24h race, there were more teams than there was in a 12h race for whatever reason which, seems to me like there's something not right. Also, the practice sessions should be done by teams and not forced by TORA themselves Imo since some teams just want to race for the fun of it or may not have time to practice. Yes people will get in your way but look at endurance racing Irl, there's a pro and Am class in GT's and that can be covered (over both classes) by over 10 seconds at some rounds. If you feel like he's holding you up, wait and pass on a straight or going into a corner cause that guy will be running his own race too or another solution would be to split the GT class up into two classes (pro and Am) and have the pro GT class in one lobby and Am in another.

Personally, I think we need to look at how to keep the whole community happy cause by the looks of it, introducing the stuff stated here could cause there to be less people racing.

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Post by ESV Moshys Fri 28 Oct 2016 - 14:17

what about pro-am because there are mixed ability teams with fast drivers and slower drivers in the same car
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Post by HCR Skodaboie Fri 28 Oct 2016 - 14:23

GTR Moshys wrote:what about pro-am because there are mixed ability teams with fast drivers and slower drivers in the same car

Determine a slow driver. Do you have a rule of measure to class a driver?

I haven'tplayed Forza 6 all that much, or Forza 5 for that matter, since buying a PC but I know I'd be mid pack...... does that class me as a Pro or AM?

Plus a lot of guys have raced here since Forza 4 or even before that. If you were to suddenly call them an Amateur because of their pace, you'd have a medical bill to pay for.....

Implementing that sort of category definition would cause a divide and make people not want to race.....IMO of course
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Post by HCR Motorhead Fri 28 Oct 2016 - 14:34

Please don't be alarmed or threatened by any mention of a 107% rule. It was a suggestion and we've looked at all feedback and are considering things that aren't just a blanket lap time rule. And even if it was a thing, as one person pointed out, you'd all be fine. Patience will wear thin on those who jump to conclusions or assume without running numbers. Currently the goal is to find the fairest way to mitigate the lower order of GT from severely disrupting the top order of TCC. The ideal way is to have enough entries for more than 1 lobby, so have at it!

And, we do encourage practice, most teams already do and if you have time to qualify and race in a big race then you can almost certainly adequately practice. If a hypothetical entry does minimal practice and drives abysmally and dangerously in the race, that's their negligence and something that we'd have to address as it's just simply not fair for the community.


One C is better.

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Post by RBR Venom Fri 28 Oct 2016 - 14:50

What Harmonic has suggested with raising the pi of the gt cars is the right step forward. If the pi is raised to what was mentioned there should be no worry on a standard length track. Nurb is different though and raw pace and consistency will show itself more than any where else. I'm not sure it will be possible to avoid gt and tcc altercations there entirely. Being patient will take you a long way at nurb there is no reason putting yourself or others into the wall. I'm sure the dev team will do their best to accommodate everyone fairly
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Post by exp1osive sam Fri 28 Oct 2016 - 16:02

Raised GT PI seems like the best solution because it'll increase the pace differential between GT and TCC cars, making lapping easier in theory.

Also, going with the Pro and Am idea, perhaps you could do it where teams decide whether they run as Pro or Am. The Pro teams are those who are more serious runners, whereas those just in the race for a bit of fun can run as Am class. Then you can split them accordingly. But I don't think this should be the primary solution, I think increasing the PI is a more effective solution
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Post by Diablo 29x Fri 28 Oct 2016 - 18:31

Just saying now- Pro/Am has been discussed, but it would cause infinite arguments, from implementation to execution, to what defines each class, etc... Use XRS as an example as to how this would be hard: They've never run a TEC event before, but they have Kaiser Wolf (ForzaRC Showdown participant) as well as a couple quick drivers. Would they be Pro/Am? Would they be in the Am class due to being "rookies"?

Also, where would the cutoff sit? Who is "Am" and who is "Pro"? F4H and HCR have drivers of varying speeds, but because would all our/their teams be considered pro? Would entries be limited based on # of Pro, Pro/Am, or Am entries? Better yet, how about the teams that will inevitably be just on the cusp of two categories... Do they bump up or down?

TL;DR- Way too many variables to pull this off. IRL it's more straightforward but you'd be creating a lot more work and hassle to establish Pro/Am divisions only to have a set of people disappointed by the designations made and leave...

Raise the PI on the GT cars so we don't have as many handicaps, that'd be great.


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Post by Freheliaz Sat 29 Oct 2016 - 12:37

Raising the PIs to a point where those cars can still be driven by less talented drivers is the way to go I think.
Going to use Pro and Am is not going to cut it, would cause more hate then it would make right.

Best solution is just to get all the F4H guys out of TCC judging on their performance at Silverstone. Razz


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Post by ESV Moshys Sat 29 Oct 2016 - 13:28

for am you would set a lap time. if you beat it you are pro if you are under it you are am is what I was getting at
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Post by ESV Moshys Sat 29 Oct 2016 - 13:29

but that comes after raising the pi in order of decisions
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Post by F4H Lotterer Sat 29 Oct 2016 - 18:25

Or just set a slow time to be classified as AM ,it won't work.
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Post by HCR generaltso Sat 29 Oct 2016 - 19:15

F4H Lotterer wrote:Or just set a slow time to be classified as AM ,it won't work.

I dont think this would be as big an issue as you think.

Winning AM wouldn't have the same cache' as winning Pro. So I dont think you'd have too many people trying to actively be in AM.

I agree with skodaboi's point though. You have drivers that are "fast" but are still 2-3 seconds off the top pace. For example at 12 hours of bathurst and spa I think i finished almost EXACTLY in the middle of drivers with my qualifying time. Same at silverstone IIRC.

HCR Motorhead wrote:

And, we do encourage practice, most teams already do and if you have time to qualify and race in a big race then you can almost certainly adequately practice. If a hypothetical entry does minimal practice and drives abysmally and dangerously in the race, that's their negligence and something that we'd have to address as it's just simply not fair for the community.

Nobody else has mentioned mandatory practice sessions.

F1 has free practice. endurance racing has warm ups. hell the 24 hours of lemans has a rule where if you havent raced there before you have to do a minimum number of laps with other cars on the track

Your practice is only as good as the other drivers are. If you're in a GT or TCC car and you're practicing with drivers that are way off the pace. When you get to race day you're going to be thrown way the hell off by where people are overtaking and by the pace in general.

Run mandatory practice sessions alongside official qualifying sessions. It's that simple. If you're worried about "showing your hand" on pace. Everyone knows where you'll qualify soon anyway...
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Post by F4H Hakkinen Sat 29 Oct 2016 - 20:30

A lot of great ideas floating around. To be fair, I don't think much of what has been said will be done. The guys running this have real lives and this isn't going to be top priority. We still need to focus on getting the basics done properly which is streaming, getting builds done ASAP and so forth.

With regards the class count - I think some sort of cap should be put in place so we are not top heavy for one class over another. The 9 teams in TCC and then they were going to be split 5 and 4 was going to be awful for a lot of the guys and especially those 4 teams at the back.

To justify a second lobby, we should bring back what was previously in the rules that X amount need to sign up to justify the second lobby.
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Post by ESV Moshys Sat 29 Oct 2016 - 22:29

you could set the am time to the tcc pole border-ish so it only classifies those in question in the initial argument
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Post by HCR Motorhead Sun 30 Oct 2016 - 0:48

F4H Hakkinen wrote:To justify a second lobby, we should bring back what was previously in the rules that X amount need to sign up to justify the second lobby.

I think TJ is looking at making this a thing.


One C is better.

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Post by Freheliaz Sun 30 Oct 2016 - 14:15

What also bothers is me a bit is that people are resigning on the day of the race.

But many of these ideas I think need to be looked at for a new endurance championship in 2017.


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Post by RW26 BLAZE Sun 30 Oct 2016 - 15:08

Would using production touring car be a better option in future events, it be easier to overtake
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Post by HCR Skodaboie Sun 30 Oct 2016 - 16:44

HCR Skodaboie wrote:
ErebusV8 wrote:

Team Name: Ax4x Cancer Council
Car Choice: BMW Z4
Class (LMP1 or TORA GT): GT
Team Number: 52
Driver 1 TORA Number: 52
Driver 1 Gamertag: CallMehDarkside
Driver 2 TORA Number: 517
Driver 2 Gamertag: AcheyBreakey


All drivers have read and understood the rules / regulations thread: Yes

Was AcheyBreakey not banned for TORA over an incident TORA want to keep quiet?


Any chance of a reply?
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Post by HCR Bellmond Tue 1 Nov 2016 - 10:53

HCR Skodaboie wrote:
HCR Skodaboie wrote:
ErebusV8 wrote:

Team Name: Ax4x Cancer Council
Car Choice: BMW Z4
Class (LMP1 or TORA GT): GT
Team Number: 52
Driver 1 TORA Number: 52
Driver 1 Gamertag: CallMehDarkside
Driver 2 TORA Number: 517
Driver 2 Gamertag: AcheyBreakey


All drivers have read and understood the rules / regulations thread: Yes

Was AcheyBreakey not banned for TORA over an incident TORA want to keep quiet?


Any chance of a reply?

Helllllooooooooo??????????????????????????
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Post by theboomeranga Tue 1 Nov 2016 - 12:27

not that I was aware??
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Post by Standaman94 Tue 1 Nov 2016 - 13:20

He is not currently banned but we don't wish to publicly discuss the circumstances any further
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Post by HCR Skodaboie Tue 1 Nov 2016 - 23:04

Well, discuss this privately....i'm awaiting an answer when it was mentioned that he will be....

And whats to hide?
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Post by Ax4x Mikey J Tue 1 Nov 2016 - 23:53

HCR Skodaboie wrote:Well, discuss this privately....i'm awaiting an answer when it was mentioned that he will be....

And whats to hide?

It seems you may have been misinformed, as the matter was rather heatedly discussed among staff. It is resolved, those who have been banned have been banned, those who have not have not. Decision final, as we (staff) are done past this matter and have better things to spend time on.


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