ISCC Phase 1 Testing

Welcome everyone to ISCC Testing.

As explained in the PM I have sent you, the ISCC features three classes - LMP1, LMP2 and GTE. We've ran the ISCC for many years now, and are looking to make sure we improve it for the upcoming season.

So far, we have used the Sebring car list as a base, with some minor adjustments and added in LMP2 and a few more cars. The carlist is detailed below, all cars in bold have been changed since Sebring. I will also post my lap times below this post from what we discovered in some early LMP2 testing.

In the PM I asked for your help but not your commitment to racing in the actual series. As I said, we all have other commitments but our request is that you help us in any spare moments you have with these cars. Some people added are GT experts, some are LMP experts. This will give us a good range of testing data.

The one thing we ask at first, is if all cars could please be tested in default tuning. I know, I'm not a fan either, but if stock cars are unbalanced then there is not much hope for them after the other have been tuned. I am very well aware that Race Cars in Forza are very hard to completely match, but Sebring showed we were on the right track, and I hope we can work together to get these cars as well balanced as possible.

Cheers

Car List

LMP1

Aston Martin AMR-One - PI 998 - 1st Stage Restrictor (625bhp), 360 Front Tyre Width (Stock), 370 Rear Tyre Width (Stock)
Lola Aston Martin - PI 989 - Stock Engine (653bhp), Stock Front and Rear Tyre Widths
Acura ARX-01b - PI 990 - 1st Stage Restrictor (602bhp), 330 Front Tyre Width, 340 rear Tyre Width
Peugeot 908 - PI 998 - Stock Engine (700bhp), Stock Front and Rear Tyre Widths
Audi R18 - PI 998 - 1st Stage Restrictors (583bhp), Stock Front and Rear Tyre Widths
Lola Honda - PI 993 - 1st Stage Restrictor (556bhp) , 340 Front Tyre Width, 360 Rear Tyre Width
Lola Mazda - PI 994 - 1st Stage Restrictor (620bhp), 325 Front Tyre Width, 345 Rear Tyre Width


LMP2

Acura ARX-01b - PI 954 - Stock Engine (510bhp), 300 Front Tyre Width (Stock), 310 Rear Tyre Width (Stock)
Chevrolet Oreca FLM09 - PI 955 - Race Intake, Race Camshaft, Race Valves, Race Displacement, Race Pistons, Stock Restrictor (550bhp), 320 Front Tyre Width, 330 Rear tyre Width
Honda Lola - PI 953 - Stock Engine (450bhp), 320 Front Tyre Width, 340 Rear Tyre Width
Mazda Lola - PI 958 - Stock Engine (525bhp), 285 Front Tyre Width (Stock), 325 Rear Tyre Width (Stock)
Porsche RS Spyder - PI 953 - Stock Engine (503bhp), 290 Front Tyre Width (Stock), 320 Rear Tyre Width (Stock)


GTE

(NEW) Aston Martin DBR9 -(R2 825 - Race Driveline Runs with HANDICAP - 20% Power - 5% Front and Rear grip)
(NEW) Lamborghini Gallardo (R3-761 - Race Breaks, Race Drive Line F310 R330)
(NEW) Ford GT (R3-763 - Race Breaks Race Drive Line, F285 R310)
(NEW) Panoz Abruzzi (R3-763 - Race Breaks, F300 R320)
(NEW) Ferrari 458 Italia (R3-764 - Race Drive Line, F300 R315)
(NEW) BMW Z4 GT3 (R3-790 - Race Breaks, F315 R340 15%Power)
(NEW) Porsche 911 GT3-RSR 2011 Race Breaks, Race Drive Line (R3-765 - F305 R320)
(NEW) SRT Viper GTS-R (R3-761 - Race Breaks F320 R340)
(NEW) Jaguar XKR GT (R3-759 -Race Breaks, F320 R340)
(NEW) Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 (R3-762 -Race Breaks, (Rim Upgrade) F310 R335)
(NEW) BMW M3 GT2 (R3-758 - Race Breaks Race Drive Line,F300 R310)

Aston Martin DBR9 - PI 825 - Race Driveline Runs with HANDICAP - 20% Power - 5% Front and Rear grip
BMW M3 GT2 - PI 758- Race Brakes, Race Driveline
Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 - PI 763 - Stock Engine (485bhp), Race Brakes, Race Driveline, 320 Front Tyre Width, 335 Rear Tyre Width
Ferrari F458 Italia - PI 764- Race Driveline
Ford GT Mk7 - PI 763- Race Brakes, Race Driveline
Jaguar RSR XKR GT - PI 757- Race Brakes, 310 Front Tyre Width, 340 Rear Tyre Width
Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4 - PI 761- Race Brakes, Race Driveline, Stock Tyre Width
Panoz Abruzi - PI 764- Race Brakes, 310 front, 320 rear
Porsche 911 GT3-RSR (Newest version) - PI 767 - Race Brakes, Race Driveline, 305 Front Tyre Width, 330 Rear Tyre Width
SRT Viper - PI 763 - Race Brakes, Max Tyre Widths

BMW Z4 GT3 build: PI 790
- Remove Restrictors
- Race Brakes
- Front Tire Width 310
- Rear Tire Width 340
- 15% Power Handicap

McLaren MP4-12C GT3 build:PI TBC
- Remove Restrictors
- Race Brakes
- Front Tire Width 320 (or try 330)
- Rear Tire Width 340 (or try 350)
- 15% Power Handicap

Hockenheim Times

LMP2

Acura ARX-01b - 1:31.508
Lola Mazda - 1:31.811
Lola Honda - 1:32.589
Porsche RS Spyder - 1:33.227

GTE

Corvette - 1:42.667
Ferrari - 1:42.844

Thanks Richy,

I will set up a google docs spreadsheet so we can keep track can you all enter your email address also Richy which Circuits wan to test on?

Hockenheim Full? Road Atlanta? Nur GP Full?

The GT cars that are listed, do you want them in? Or can cars be added and deleted?

If Cars dont fit at all they can be removed, we are welcome to suggestions for adding in cars if they fit cheers dude

BMW Z4 GT3 fits with removed restrictors, 15% Power Handicap and upgraded tire widths.

About the Audi R18. VM ALMS Series 1 is using the same build (except rims) and it's a little bit to fast.

That Audi is 4-7 tenths quicker depending on the track.

LMP2 is good in theory but you will spread your competition out way too much and run into the same issue you do with the lower class cars in the GT series. There won't be anyone in them. I would rather race against 20 people I know that have a shot above or below me than race against 3.

Anyway, here you can see my builds I used for GT testing:
http://www.virtual-motorsports.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=253&t=3523

All cars were within 5 tenths of eachother on every track I tested, Road Atlanta, Laguna Seca and Sebring. There were within 3 tenths of eachother on average, all tracks combined. It just is not possible to balance these cars for Le Mans AND multiple other tracks.

Some cars might need a little adjustment, like the BMW Z4 and Esperante. And I know TORA is not a fan of different rims, but rims don't really matter much performance wise.

Ferrari F430 is too quick without any handicap.

Those GT builds are spot on.

I think the Ferrari might be a tiny bit slower and don't know how a tire width could help/hurt it and the Esperante may be slightly quick but those builds are very good.

In testing both Takumi and myself were really close in everything with the exception of the Porsche and we didn't run the GT3 Beamer and I didn't bother with the Jag.

Yeah, we want to stay away from the Z4 tbh. We tried it but felt it just didn't have the same performance as the rest of the cars. I'm trying to steer us away from power handicaps as they haven't been met well in the GTs, but I had to give ground for the Aston.

Last season we had 4 classes in ISCC and it diluted the field way too much in a lobby, however it was very popular and the ISCC became one of our most attended series ever last season with 4 classes. Dropping GTC helps us, and I think many people here will want LMP2. I agree, I would say 2 would be best as seen at Sebring but 3 isn't too bad.

Regarding rims, we usually allow anyone to use any rims they want so it's not that we don't like them. We made the TEC all stock rims to get an idea on how it worked and we could easily see any upgrades, its a good way of making sure people use the correct builds. Wither that or a specific type of rim like VM uses a lot.

Still, this is why we made the group - to get discussion and feedback.

BMW Z4 GT3 was actually the fastest around Laguna Seca in my testing. So I dropped the tire width by 2 upgrades, should have been 1 in hindsight. It actually works pretty well, I'm thinking about using it for VM ALMS Series 2.

Perhaps I can try to put the McLaren GT3 and Mercedes GT3 in the 15% Power Handicap group, if you guys want to.

Aston Martin is used a lot in GT9 (because of CQR), eventhough it has handicaps.

Yea if we can see feed back on those as a look would be welcome

Sticking with the stock rims on all cars correct? Glad to see P2 is back, I know the community is looking forward more so to this than GTs.

When I get testing, I will post results

Can you post up the builds for the GT3 cars as well so I can look into those as well? I'd rather see just the z4 as it fits and the other GT3s don't but I'll try them all anyways

What about a GTC group for the slower cars, like the last series? Just whack the Merc, Z4 and Porsche Cup in there GTC was very fun last year, especially being the slowest of four classes.

Just my input. That is all

duke_of_bruno@hotmail.com


My opinions:
- Class structure - (P1 & GT) > (P1, PC, & GT) > (P1, P2, & GT) > (P1, P2, GT, & GTC)

- Car list - (Short car list with NO handicaps) > (Expansive car list with handicaps)

The more classes you have the more spread out your competition will be and the participation will drop quickly.

People at VM are already complaining that there are only 4 LMP cars per lobby. I think about 30 people signed up for LMP while 70 did for GT if that gives you an idea.

What fun is it to race in a lobby with two or three other cars? It ends up being a hot lapping session and the further you spread out your talent base the worse the lobbies will get. Put a guy who usually gets in lobby 4 in lobby one and he will be running over people in P2.

ISCC was an absolute blast last year. Four cars per lobby or not, that's still enough competition to have fun. It's an endurance race after all, so bumper-to-bumper competition isn't a necessity. It's about pace and control, etc etc.

It is true that more classes dilutes the racing, but for some reason even with 4 classes last season we saw the numbers of racers increase throughout the year in all classes. Maybe TORA caters more to the multiclass aspect, but I do feel 3 classes is the maximum we should have. Here we also tend to lock in classes when they are too full to try strike a balance, for better or worse, but the ISCC is popular and people do enjoy racing in a variety of classes. It's not my thing and would rather stick with the slower cars, but some people love it.

The 4 races I did in the American series were quite boring for me, except Sebring. But Sebring was the first race, which usually means the highest amount of participants. I was running on my own for the most part in P2. At Sunset and Indianapolis there were ONLY 2 LMP2's in the lobby. The other guy was Carrera in the overpowered Acura, even my Oreca FLM09 is overpowered compared to the other P2 cars.

And the GTE cars lapped the GTC cars only once during the race, sometimes never. At some circuits the fastest GTC was only 1 to 1.5 seconds slower than the fastest GTE.

F4H Koenigsegg wrote:...
And the GTE cars lapped the GTC cars only once during the race, sometimes never. At some circuits the fastest GTC was only 1 to 1.5 seconds slower than the fastest GTE.

This was my only issue with the last season and is why I would prefer LMPC as the "3rd" class over LMP2. Spec cars would also eliminate Balance of Performance testing needed.

Running with all all 4 classes in the same lobby is fun, but, the maximum of 16 players in a single lobby is why I would rather see only 2 classes.

Same here Bruno, 2 classes is ideal for the amount of participants you have.

The first ISCC I did in the Porsche on FM3 was an absolute blast. It was only two classes, granted the lobbies were smaller but larger lobbies would have made it better.

Best race I ever had was at Tsukuba in multi-class. Remember that Richy? Not one accident in lobby one. Everyone was dreading it going in and complaining, myself included, and it was magnificent.

I prefer 2 classes also.

Worm, the ISCC season in FM3 had 3 classes - LMP1, LMP2 and GTE I remember racing your Porsche at Catalunya. I think that year though only 6 people or something raced in LMP2 and not many turned up.

I am not against dropping LMP2, however you will have to convince more people than just me. It is a favoured class by the community, even if we feel it dilutes the racing some people still really enjoy it.

make P2 a stock Acura and let the spec racers battle it out.