Re: ISCC Phase 2 Testing

by F4H Lotterer Wed 8 May 2013 - 9:46

from my stand point increase the Viper PI , drop the Z4.

by **Ax4x Cowboy** Wed 8 May 2013 - 12:48

Grip isn't the Viper's problem though - it's just slow in a straight line. I found with the Viper it was better when shifting well before red line because the power is lower in the rev range with that car.

The only way to get the car a little extra power would be to remove the first restrictor (577 bhp) and run it at 15% power handicap - resulting in 482.8 bhp. I know it's not much over the stock 475 bhp but it might help?

With the LMP1 Audi, if you run it with the first restrictor removed (583 bhp) at 5% power handicap then it brings it down to 553.85 bhp. A small increase over the stock 540 bhp but it may bring it more into line with the remainder of the P1 field?

If the Audi is going to run at 5% handicap then it would be interesting to see how everything else runs at 5% too except the Peugeot. I don't know if that would make the Peugeot dominant or give it just enough of a boost to make it equal.

However, because we are short of time, it might take too long to retest the P1 class?

With there only being 4 buckets - 100% bucket (P1 + GTE), 5% bucket, Viper bucket, DBR9 bucket - you would have to use team colours for each class.

by **CQR Rogue** Wed 8 May 2013 - 13:13

Yea way to long to reset whole P1 field could just drop from list this is not a final list and car is no needed if it does not fit.

Remember this season will be no limited choices meaning car availability is open to all expect for space in the series etc.

Viper hmmmm would that make it to good.

Good points raised.

Could test above run adui like you said 583 BHHP with 5% see what times you get?

Same with Viper have a test

by **Ax4x Cowboy** Wed 8 May 2013 - 14:32

Viper (577hp, 15% power restriction - PI 796 ) - 2:05.883 @ Road America - 168mph Top Speed.

Just over 4 tenths quicker than before. Human element may account for some of the time gain but the extra bit of power would have helped too. Solidly mid-pack and a slight gain in top speed.

Audi (583hp, 5% power restriction) - 1:46.513 @ Road America - 192mph Top Speed.

Even with the power handicap the car is still 2nd quickest here and very easy to drive thanks to TONS of downforce. Another run without the power handicap and did a 1:45.843 (just to check previous lap time wasn't a 'hero lap').

by **Ax4x Cowboy** Wed 8 May 2013 - 15:34

Viper (577hp, 15% power restriction - PI 796 ) - 1:50.920 @ Mugello.

Just over 2 tenths quicker than before. Still 2nd quickest here but now a bit closer to the Lamborghini.

Audi (583hp, 5% power restriction) - 1:34.054 @Mugello.

Just under 1 tenth slower than before. Still 2nd quickest here but now a bit closer to the mid-field. AMR1 fastest here but not by a huge amount and AMR1 much more average at Road America.

by **CQR Rogue** Wed 8 May 2013 - 15:39

Controversial suggestion from me - Drop AMR & R18 or leave both or remove 1

Viper what you think Cowboy

by F4H bandicoot Wed 8 May 2013 - 16:05

over at VM the R18 was run and was a little OP against the Acura, however, the Acura was ran with less PI and wasn't a far off as it seemed with Diablo getting podiums most weeks in it. Just some additional thoughts.

I'd get out there are test myself but exams and stuff :O

by **Ax4x Cowboy** Wed 8 May 2013 - 16:24

Well I can't speak for how other people drive the Viper but I shift right around 5500 rpm to maximise power. If other people have been working the revs higher when lapping the Viper then they aren't going to be getting the most out of the car IMO.

That said, it is such a small upgrade but it does seem to help the car out. From my results, I think the car with stock power is fast enough but looking at the results of others, it seems to need something to help it out.

The R18 is a current car so I would like to see it stay. I also think it is overpowered if it runs at 583 bhp. The 5% handicap (554 bhp) certainly brings it back towards the rest of the pack although it is a minimal increase over its stock 540bhp.

I don't mind whether the AMR1 stays, stays at 5% or is removed. Across the 2 tracks I have run it seems balanced without a handicap but that is only 2 tracks out of 10.

by **Koenigsegg R** Wed 8 May 2013 - 18:38

Regarding VM ALMS. MOPAR001 wouldn't have finished 3rd in the standings if GLR BRIZZO (BMW M3) and F4H Bullet (Porsche 911) didn't lag out. MOPAR001 is one of the best GT drivers on FM4 and he couldn't get the Viper in Lobby 1 at Le Mans, Road America and Motegi. Those are all speed and acceleration tracks. Viper is all about handling, just like the Lamborghini. I also thought about 1 removed restrictor and 15% Power Handicap. I still have to test it, but it will give the car some extra acceleration and speed. Max tire width won't work. It will be even better in the corners and even slower on speed.

Corvette and Abruzzi are fine IMO. ONR RoadRunner (Corvette) is one of the best drivers on FM4. He didn't out perform everyone on the tracks he won. I also didn't out perform everyone on the tracks I won in my Abruzzi. GT cars are my speciality and I really like the Abruzzi. F4H c0dak and F4H Gashi X were struggling a lot in the Abruzzi. On some tracks I really had to push the Abruzzi to go well. Had some nice fights in most races.

I do think the Ferrari might need 1 rear tire upgrade. It struggled at VM and was not a popular car.

by **Richy59** Wed 8 May 2013 - 19:27

Cheers guys, that's some really good stuff Cowboy.

So, summarizing what seems to be the consensus:

LMP1

Audi R18 - PI 998 with 583 bhp by removing first restrictor. Adding 5% handicap will bring the Audi down to 554 bhp and will be a slight adjustment to the stock power.

Aston Martin AMR One - PI 998 with 625bhp seems to be on par with the rest of the field, maybe slightly faster. Questionable as to whether or not it needs the 5% handicap. Doesn't have the same level of grip as the R18.

Aston Martin Lola - PI 989 has the speed but doesn't quite have the same level of grip as the rest of the field. Can't do much with it, as taking it to X class would require a much higher handicap to be placed on it.

Peugeot 908 - Generally not the best P1 car but not completely terrible. Again, would need to be in X class and handicapped to bring it to the R18 level but that may make it too good?

GTE

Corvette - Seems to be balance with this build, not a run away car like had been feared.

Ferrari 458 - Could do with one more upgrade on the rear tyres to help stability. Is a pretty lairy car to begin with.

Viper GTS - Two options: Give the car another increase in tyres all around so that it has an advantage in the corners, but at stock loses out on the straights. The other option is to take off the restrictor and add a substantial 15% power handicap to it to give it a small increase over it's stock power output. Wouldn't get the extra tyres if this were to happen. Seems a few people have tried this.

Groups wise we would have to go with:

Group 1 - No Handicap
Group 2 - 5% Power Handicap
Group 3 - 15% Power Handicap
Group 4 - 20% Power Handicap, 5% Front and Rear Grip Handicap.

We would then make P1, PC and GT choose their team colours to differentiate who is who on track.

by **CQR Rogue** Wed 8 May 2013 - 19:28

wow awesome work all want to say thank you all for your hardwork Smile

by F4H Bullet Wed 8 May 2013 - 21:36

I honestly think the Amr-one needs a 5 percent handicap. Last year in the Le Mans race it had one of the best top speeds but car handles like it is on rails.

by BG Wumba Wed 8 May 2013 - 23:14

Richy59 wrote:Cheers guys, that's some really good stuff Cowboy.

So, summarizing what seems to be the consensus:

LMP1

Audi R18 - PI 998 with 583 bhp by removing first restrictor. Adding 5% handicap will bring the Audi down to 554 bhp and will be a slight adjustment to the stock power.

Aston Martin AMR One - PI 998 with 625bhp seems to be on par with the rest of the field, maybe slightly faster. Questionable as to whether or not it needs the 5% handicap. Doesn't have the same level of grip as the R18.

Aston Martin Lola - PI 989 has the speed but doesn't quite have the same level of grip as the rest of the field. Can't do much with it, as taking it to X class would require a much higher handicap to be placed on it.

Peugeot 908 - Generally not the best P1 car but not completely terrible. Again, would need to be in X class and handicapped to bring it to the R18 level but that may make it too good?

GTE

Corvette - Seems to be balance with this build, not a run away car like had been feared.

Ferrari 458 - Could do with one more upgrade on the rear tyres to help stability. Is a pretty lairy car to begin with.

Viper GTS - Two options: Give the car another increase in tyres all around so that it has an advantage in the corners, but at stock loses out on the straights. The other option is to take off the restrictor and add a substantial 15% power handicap to it to give it a small increase over it's stock power output. Wouldn't get the extra tyres if this were to happen. Seems a few people have tried this.

Groups wise we would have to go with:

Group 1 - No Handicap
Group 2 - 5% Power Handicap
Group 3 - 15% Power Handicap
Group 4 - 20% Power Handicap, 5% Front and Rear Grip Handicap.

We would then make P1, PC and GT choose their team colours to differentiate who is who on track.

I have to say nearly every-time I have come online I have seen Luke (Cowboy) testing and testing again these cars out, to get them the most balanced they can be so its been a big effort from him and everyone else Cheers

by Ax4x Chaddy Wed 8 May 2013 - 23:39

Great work lads, thank you for your efforts cheers

by RumbleBee 392 Thu 9 May 2013 - 5:18

i agree with richy on the viper, 2 choices to go thru. both have plus n minuses..... what to do....

the AMR should stay stock, the only reason it was fast at le mans was cuz of Drake, and drake has proved that its equal in the series cuz of the balance of tracks....

and just for reference, i've already commited to a LMPC ride, so my opinions on these cars are to see them succeed and be competitive. i'm getting tired of seeing the same cars up front lol

by **CQR Rogue** Thu 9 May 2013 - 8:50

Richy59 wrote:Cheers guys, that's some really good stuff Cowboy.

So, summarizing what seems to be the consensus:

LMP1

Audi R18 - PI 998 with 583 bhp by removing first restrictor. Adding 5% handicap will bring the Audi down to 554 bhp and will be a slight adjustment to the stock power. [Agree 5% Power]

Aston Martin AMR One - PI 998 with 625bhp seems to be on par with the rest of the field, maybe slightly faster. Questionable as to whether or not it needs the 5% handicap. Doesn't have the same level of grip as the R18. [Unsure need see more times with 5% handicap]

Aston Martin Lola - PI 989 has the speed but doesn't quite have the same level of grip as the rest of the field. Can't do much with it, as taking it to X class would require a much higher handicap to be placed on it. [leave alone]

Peugeot 908 - Generally not the best P1 car but not completely terrible. Again, would need to be in X class and handicapped to bring it to the R18 level but that may make it too good? [leave alone]

GTE

Corvette - Seems to be balance with this build, not a run away car like had been feared. [stay as is now]

Ferrari 458 - Could do with one more upgrade on the rear tyres to help stability. Is a pretty lairy car to begin with. [add 1 tyre width on rear takes up 1 pi]

Viper GTS - Two options: Give the car another increase in tyres all around so that it has an advantage in the corners, but at stock loses out on the straights. The other option is to take off the restrictor and add a substantial 15% power handicap to it to give it a small increase over it's stock power output. Wouldn't get the extra tyres if this were to happen. Seems a few people have tried this. [could look at 15% power if does not work tyre width]

Groups wise we would have to go with:

Group 1 - No Handicap
Group 2 - 5% Power Handicap
Group 3 - 15% Power Handicap
Group 4 - 20% Power Handicap, 5% Front and Rear Grip Handicap.

We would then make P1, PC and GT choose their team colours to differentiate who is who on track.

Agree comments in brackets

by **LMR DarthMario** Thu 9 May 2013 - 11:13

I agree giving the viper a touch more power. Doing something similar for the le mans 24hr build (10% I tried w/ 1st restrictor removed) netted times for me that were real close to the Sebring spec corvette

by **Koenigsegg R** Thu 9 May 2013 - 14:30

If the Viper will get 15% Power Handicap, then the BMW Z4 can fit in that group also. We don't have to make a special group for the Z4 anymore.

by **CQR Rogue** Fri 10 May 2013 - 22:51

LMP1 -

Ok after testing R18 and AMR tonight -

I think both these car require a 5% power handicap and both run at 998 PI.

--------------------------

GTE -

The Ferrari 458 should get 1 tyre width on the rear = 325/40R18 PI 765 Weight = 2711 lbs

--------------------------------------------

Have not tested viper

by RumbleBee 392 Sat 11 May 2013 - 19:44

the R18 and AMR aren't the best cars, just the easiest ones to drive quick in.

by F4H Drake Sun 12 May 2013 - 1:03

XPR Soundwave wrote:the R18 and AMR aren't the best cars, just the easiest ones to drive quick in.

No they are the best. The AMR has the highest top speed, with good grip, and the Audi has one of the highest accelerations, probably the highest aside from the Peugeot 908, and very good grip.

by **Richy59** Sun 12 May 2013 - 2:02

So what do you think Drake, 5% power on both of them to balance?

by F4H Bullet Sun 12 May 2013 - 3:57

Drake Hellspawn wrote:
XPR Soundwave wrote:the R18 and AMR aren't the best cars, just the easiest ones to drive quick in.

No they are the best. The AMR has the highest top speed, with good grip, and the Audi has one of the highest accelerations, probably the highest aside from the Peugeot 908, and very good grip.

+1

by F4H Drake Sun 12 May 2013 - 9:25

Richy59 wrote:So what do you think Drake, 5% power on both of them to balance?

If you are insistent are on it then, I think it will work, but expect to see a lot of people picking the Acura in my opinion.

The AMR-One should remain competitive with a 5% power restriction, but I have not personally tested the Audi at -5% power restriction. I would imagine it would be able to hold it's own, but some cleverness with the abundant aero is going to need to take place.

Personally, I think it's better to try and bring all the other cars up to the Audi's benchmark. I brought this up a couple of pages back, but it died out. Neutral

by F4H Lotterer Sun 12 May 2013 - 11:02

If we are trying to match the Audi why not just drop the car ?

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